Energy-autonomous house: a utopia?

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SEB2502
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Energy-autonomous house: a utopia?




by SEB2502 » 20/03/07, 10:01

Hello everyone,

I currently live in a studio with my partner. We have a project in the more or less near future to build our own little nest. We both have an ecological fiber and we would like to participate in our own way to a better life on the planet.

We were thinking of building a house of more or less 150m². We would like to do things correctly and therefore we would like to plan and arrange everything when designing the house. We live in Belgium: in Walloon Brabant to be precise.

I have heard of a passive house (do you have any information? Costs, specifications, air circulation system, ...). Which almost does not require heating, however, I read that it was better to have extra heating to compensate for the very cold day and certain types of climate. The cities I visited advocated the use of an auxiliary electric convector or gas heating, but this did not run counter to an ecological process. Is it true? What are the possible solutions. For my part, I was thinking of a heat pump. Is it achievable? isn't it too expensive? What is the price of such an installation? Are there 2 types of heating with the pump by the floor or by convector? What is the best? Does the heat pump allow to heat domestic water (for shower, bath, ...)? Do we have to add solar panels and / or a solar boiler to produce hot water?

We also wanted to produce our own electricity, we had thought of 30M2 of photovoltaic panels ... Is that enough?

Do you have any other suggestions? What would be the price of such an installation in a house? Do you have any ideas for subsidies received for these systems in Belgium? Is all this profitable? What would be the depreciation period for such an installation? What is the lifespan of the different elements?

Good day to you

Sébastien

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by Cuicui » 20/03/07, 11:01

Hello,
That's a lot of questions. Was not a specialist, I can not answer it, but here are some thoughts.
A bioclimatic house is semi-buried on the north side and open to the south.
Doing without heating seems utopian, unless you bury yourself a few tens of meters underground ... The simplest heating is the wood stove (or vegetable oil recovered). Advantage: little risk of breakdown, no need for electricity.
A solar water heater seems essential to me. The great luxury would be to flank it with a photovoltaic panel (50W) to run the circulator.
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by bham » 20/03/07, 15:04

Given your questions and the diversity of the themes of reflection, take a day (you are not a day away) to navigate the forum econology by searching theme by theme for the answers or the beginning of the answer to your questions. Afterwards you can always ask us for details. Because you can imagine that we can not answer all of your questions, like that, with a snap of the fingers and send you more answers on your e-mail.
It is good to be curious, but you have to go to the end of the process.
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the middle
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Re: Energy independent house: a utopia?




by the middle » 20/03/07, 15:13

SEB2502 wrote:Hello everyone,

I currently live in a studio with my partner. We have a project in the more or less near future to build our own little nest. We both have an ecological fiber and we would like to participate in our own way to a better life on the planet.

We were thinking of building a house of more or less 150m². We would like to do things correctly and therefore we would like to plan and arrange everything when designing the house. We live in Belgium: in Walloon Brabant to be precise.

I have heard of a passive house (do you have any information? Costs, specifications, air circulation system, ...). Which almost does not require heating, however, I read that it was better to have extra heating to compensate for the very cold day and certain types of climate. The cities I visited advocated the use of an auxiliary electric convector or gas heating, but this did not run counter to an ecological process. Is it true? What are the possible solutions. For my part, I was thinking of a heat pump. Is it achievable? isn't it too expensive? What is the price of such an installation? Are there 2 types of heating with the pump by the floor or by convector? What is the best? Does the heat pump allow to heat domestic water (for shower, bath, ...)? Do we have to add solar panels and / or a solar boiler to produce hot water?

We also wanted to produce our own electricity, we had thought of 30M2 of photovoltaic panels ... Is that enough?

Do you have any other suggestions? What would be the price of such an installation in a house? Do you have any ideas for subsidies received for these systems in Belgium? Is all this profitable? What would be the depreciation period for such an installation? What is the lifespan of the different elements?

Good day to you

Sébastien

code: Select all

xhrouetsebastien@hotmail.com

For all these questions, this is the perfect time,
You have the Bois et confort lounge, which is happening this weekend in Namur
You will find a lot of information, techniques, and state aids.
Also, be sure to look for information on Canadian wells.
There is also the Salon de Charleroi, from March 17 to 25.
Building a passive house is safer than playing on the stock market.
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elephant
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by elephant » 21/03/07, 01:11

my position is:

Beware of the savings in candle ends, which can be very expensive.

if you can find the land well oriented, consider a passive house. I have a girlfriend who, thanks to the good insulation, large windows to the south and solar panels heats and lights up her villa (Charleroi region) for less than 150 euros / month) House inhabited 24 hours a day.

that said, to sum up:

high level insulation! (24 cm, step 12)
with aluminum foil, of course

high level frame, triple glazing if necessary

boiler (gas if possible, ultramodern)

top level regulation, sector by sector, with several time zones (bedrooms, living room, kitchen)

if only one room is occupied during the day (office) electrical backup
ditto for the bathroom, which must be better heated than the rest of the house, but not all the time ...

solar panels (hot water is still 9 to 10 kW / day)

the best insulation remains .... the neighbors' house!

choose your location carefully, the countryside is cool, but far from work, the train station, high school, children's friends, sports clubs: one car less, it's 4500 euros more per year in your teal!

made a tank and a 3rd water circuit.

forget photovoltaics, but study your lighting carefully
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by Targol » 21/03/07, 10:59

elephant wrote:boiler (gas if possible, ultramodern)


For once, we disagree, elephant.
A gas boiler, that's what I had installed 3 years ago and I bite my fingers:
  • first, it's still fossil fuel with the GHG problems it involves,
  • then, all recent gas boilers operate with electronic ignition so you no longer have heating in the event of a power cut,
  • finally, the price of gas is indexed to the price of oil and therefore has serious risks of an increase (+ 26% in 3 years in France). In addition, almost all European gas comes from Russia, and a European leader only needs to utter the word "Chechenia" for Putin to threaten to turn off the tap ...


For my part, I think that the best option remains cogeneration by preheating by solar collector supplemented by a wood boiler (logs, pellets or pellets depending on availability and means).
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by elephant » 21/03/07, 12:20

yes, but it's much more expensive!

if you want to invest 25000 to 50000 euros in energy independence, I agree with you: large area of ​​collectors, pellet boilers, cogeneration, and everything, but land is already so expensive in Walloon Brabant!
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by Christophe » 21/03/07, 12:29

Targol wrote:For my part, I think that the best option remains cogeneration by preheating by solar collector supplemented by a wood boiler (logs, pellets or pellets depending on availability and means).


+1 and I would add with a thermal buffer and heating floor (direct solar) to be able to recover a maximum of calories from the cogé.

In this case the wood boiler can be useless if the whole is well dimensioned. But an extra stove can be welcome to complete the main room.

No grouch it is not so much more expensive if you think about it! Look at the installed price of an oil boiler!

And then when I see the new houses sold in Wallonia and equipped with oil-fired boilers and with the minimum of insulation consuming 3000L / year excuse me but it is quite easy to make econological the solutions cited above ...
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by elephant » 21/03/07, 13:31

In absolute terms, you are right, it does not cost more over 20 or 30 years, simply the energy budget slides towards investment, which is healthy.
But, paradox of paradoxes: if you have to spend a sum
S = financing (F) + energy (E),

the banks will lend you the sum F more easily,

knowing that in your salary capacity you are able to assume the reimbursement of F + E (= S)

but they will hardly lend you the sum S, while the financial effort is more or less the same

As for the boilers, it is to be seen:

for a small super-insulated house, you have hyper-efficient gas boilers at 1500 euros, circulator and expansion tank included, however, a Viessmann ..... vito biferral
it's more like 4 to 6000 euros.

but still it is necessary that the gas passes in the street,
when the power failure it also affects the oil heating because of the regulation and the fan of the burner.

in terms of wood heating with recuperation, one of my clients heats with a wood cassette + recuperator for a low 3-room house, 2 high rooms + programmed electric backup for the bathroom
BUT ..... he tinkers in logging

there is no solution going everywhere.
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by Christophe » 21/03/07, 13:34

As long as the banks do not take into account the real cost of CO2 (or rather the real gains from CO2 savings), their reasoning and investment calculations will be piped ...

Otherwise +1 for solutions goes everywhere ... well if there is one: oil : Cheesy:
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