Type of soil?

[A.D. 44]

Hello everyone,

Well I doubt that doing remote analysis without knowing much of the site (without seeing, studying or touch) is very difficult or even hazardous ... And it would probably be advisable to take samples of soil to have them analyzed ... but I still try my question ...

is it that according to what comes naturally on the ground we can know its nature?

Good already in preamble, I must say that this ground is located on the slopes of the Loire (44), on the rock therefore with a lot of stones and pebbles various (flint, yellow crumbly rock, rock more hard ... of the gray, the black, a nice variety ... etc ...).

To complete the picture, this land was an old vineyard (so copiously water herbicides and others for years ... decades) until about 2005 ... This well mistreated soil (packed, polluted and leached) is at once even poorer (I suppose) that a rocky terrain left penitentiary.

In short ... by stating a list of plants that come (naturally and in number) is it possible to know more?

Many thanks.

[perseus]

Hello,

Well, the type of plants naturally present on a soil can give information on the soil and / or its condition. If the plot is uncultivated for several years it is all the better for this purpose.
Coteaux de la Loire, it remains relatively large, can you be a little more specific (common? Or other).
Take a spade, a pickaxe, see the soils: depth before the mother rock, texture, photos ...

In general, the sector is largely positioned on a massif called Champtoceaux complex. Complex it is precisely, but one finds there micaschists, orthogneiss rather acidic rocks, and metagabbros and amphibolites rather derived from a metamorphism of basic rocks.
The vast majority of vineyard lands (the one in AOC) are on the slopes and primers of hills before the plateaus. These are by definition poor and harsh soils (otherwise they would not be classified AOC in this sector). Depending on the situation, there is 20 60 cm sandy soil, sandy-silty, often rich in pebbles before a rock more often arenized or fractured than altered clay.
The richness of these soils in pebbles and coarse elements does not make them so sensitive to settlement. So the "good vegetable areas" are placed at the bottom of the slopes near the rivers, the talwegs (for example all the market gardens near the Loire) or on the plateaus. But I generalize quite a bit.

If your soil is not cultivated since 2005 it took a long time to regenerate, it is positive. It is likely that it is quite poor and especially in organic matter. But this will be the right time to spread hay (see the dedicated thread on this forum) and / or sow some "green manures" in anticipation of next spring.
High hearts

To answer your question, we must try to list the most common plants, or even to give an idea of ​​their frequency (percentage) for example by making measurements on a linear meter.

@+

[A.D. 44]

Good evening,

So how to say things without seeming dithyrambic ... Your answer m epates!

I really did not expect the thousandth. Thank you very much for your already very informative answer. I know more about my region (on which I was born) in a message that soon 45ans ...

You would not be here?!?

My commune: divatte on Loire (ex: the chapel low sea)

The plants that come spontaneously and in number, then in the disorder:

-robinier
-Broom
-liseron
white blank
white and purple clover
-dandelion
wild carrot
-plantain
-digitale
-fougeres
...

Good some like more shade than others ...

[perseus]

Hello,

Good evening,

You would not be here?!?

44? Yes since a few years

My commune: divatte on Loire (ex: the chapel low sea)

Ha ok, more south than I imagined, but the commune is essentially on micaschists with veins a little more mixed in the south I think. But hey, I'm not a geologist.
It is often a little less marked from a topographical and pedological point of view than the "heart" of the slopes of the Loire, can be less stony. I imagine that the vines abandoned since 2005 were probably not the top of the wine field. Contrary to what I said, settling is therefore easier to envisage than in marked hillsides on the side of La Varenne, Le Cellier and others. To test if it is packed so ...

The plants that come spontaneously and in number, then in the disorder:

-robinier
-Broom
-liseron
white blank
white and purple clover
-dandelion
wild carrot
-plantain
-digitale
-fougeres
...
Good some like more shade than others ...

The brooms, should identify which, as well as the plantain
But the series is ultimately quite typical of heathland soils that very gently "redirect" towards the forest. Beyond that, I am not going to shoot high. Out of habit (which isn't always a good thing) I would say it's likely that this is rather low in MO and that MO is a bit stuck and archaic.
But hey, no reason that you can not do this kind of terrain.

[A.D. 44]

thank you very much for these clarifications and the time granted to my request.

Indeed, I have a maximum of thirty cm of very stony ground before the rock ... and here it is really very hard and sport to dig ... as soon as it is a question of wanting to put a tree (or a shrub) it's mini 1h-1h30 to make him a hole ...

So, with this rock and the fractures that go with it, it can drain very hard and fast, and not easy to bring water to the young plantations. Add to this the slope of the terrain (on average 12%) ... it does not simplify things

And yes, even if the ground where I am was torn off at the beginning 2000, the one next door which is no longer exploited (where grow vigorously the locusts) is still still classified AOC.

I will try to do something by helping me with your valuable information.

Thank you

[perseus]

Hello,

thank you very much for these clarifications and the time granted to my request.

Indeed, I have a maximum of thirty cm of very stony ground before the rock ... and here it is really very hard and sport to dig ... as soon as it is a question of wanting to put a tree (or a shrub) it's mini 1h-1h30 to make him a hole ...

So, with this rock and the fractures that go with it, it can drain very hard and fast, and not easy to bring water to the young plantations. Add to this the slope of the terrain (on average 12%) ... it does not simplify things

And yes, even if the ground where I am was torn off at the beginning 2000, the one next door which is no longer exploited (where grow vigorously the locusts) is still still classified AOC.

I will try to do something by helping me with your valuable information.

Thank you

Yes the vineyard lands of the area have by definition a low useful reserve. It may not be there that you will make next year great harvests of artichoke or celery
However, it is not because it is stony at 30cm that it is necessarily packed. The vine goes in there, if she had only 30cm to explore she would not hold.
But the Did67 thread brings a lot of elements to help you.

[A.D. 44]

I will indeed look at the did67 technique.

I know that it is not recommended to return the land (and that it will undoubtedly make it jump) but I started in the decaillagetage of a small parcel ... finally only on 25 or 30 cm deep and again by removing only the largest stones (it would be illusory to remove everything). I do this with the pickaxe, and as soon as I get to the 25-30cm, I can bang hard, I hold ...

I get about a wheelbarrow full well all 3m2.

Then I'll mix some compost, then I'll mulch it and leave it until next spring ... And I'll see what it's got.

This will be the one and only time I will work the land as well ... I really do not intend to plow it periodically.

But it seems to me necessary to go through it at the beginning, because there for the moment with this rock, it is impossible to sink a dibble.

[Ahmed]

Who could it pounce? We must first adapt to the real conditions and not stupidly apply universal recipes ... This is a prerequisite to create the conditions for a proper functioning of your garden.

[A.D. 44]

Thank you for your answer Ahmed,

That is to say that I often read (not to say everywhere) that it is necessary to stop turning the floors, which I hear well ... However, at home I do not see how to start in m accommodating so many stones in the ground.

After that, you can tell me:

"Well, you don't have a vegetable garden and that's all. So leave him alone in this soil (he's already seen enough like that) and let what comes naturally to grow there. There are other places on the planet doing to accommodate food crops "

[Moindreffor]

Thank you for your answer Ahmed,

That is to say that I often read (not to say everywhere) that it is necessary to stop turning the floors, which I hear well ... However, at home I do not see how to start in m accommodating so many stones in the ground.

After that, you can tell me:

"Well, you don't have a vegetable garden and that's all. So leave him alone in this soil (he's already seen enough like that) and let what comes naturally to grow there. There are other places on the planet doing to accommodate food crops "

Well, if we tell you that, tell yourself that you must also let the idiots express themselves without much annoyance, and do what you like at home.