THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Antoche
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THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Antoche » 09/03/18, 19:03



Allow me to create a topic to share my vision, as well as questions at the end of my writing and notes taken from a short permaculture internship with Eric Escoffier. I highlighted in yellow the parts that I would like to understand. Sorry for the length and thanks for your time.



PART A: INTRODUCTION: MY VISION, PLANT CULTURE WITH EACH ITS OBJECTIVES

Finally, permaculture (just by keeping the cultivation dimension of plants), lazy gardening, phenoculture, aquaponics, market gardening living, organic farming, all that is what I call the culture of plants. plants. Certain facets are specific to a certain culture approach and are defined by distinct objectives (self-sufficiency or production for sale) but what we often find in common is the will to cultivate in an intelligent way, which implies thinking and applying methods that are based on principles such as "invest as few calories as possible to produce as many as possible"; "produce a lot with the least possible effort", and this in a framework where one uses to its advantage the natural operations (exception for many facets of organic farming that can go against these natural operations) but roughly speaking, this "given production / energy invested in the right way" ratio is a common foundation, a will common to all these different approaches to culture. This is something that can be found in phenoculture, permaculture, market gardening, living soil and even in organic farming on certain facets. (ex: with the Mesclun harvester, very useful, eg: Mollison principles: Each element must have several functions - Each function is fulfilled by several elements - Working with nature rather than against it - Making the smallest effort to the biggest change.) In the end all that is intelligent plant culture.
If I'm not talking nonsense, it seems to me that Bill Mollison himself says he hasn't invented anything, and that for millennia there have always been forms of "permaculture". Mollison has done above all a work of observation of nature and grouping of several fundamental keys to create productive, resilient, sustainable, perennial systems following the constant drama of conventional agriculture which is a loss-making system since we invest between 10 and 20 calories to produce 1 food calorie (by counting gray energy for example, and in a loss-making system there are necessarily losers in history, it is a form of slavery system whose losers are: nature (destruction) + poor countries).

I understand that the word permaculture can put off many, and as I often say: permaculture is a big deal, and indeed we can find one thing said and its opposite among teachers who claim to be permaculture. The key is to learn from the right references. To understand something, we must also go to the source, the origin. For example just read Bill Mollison. Subsequently this will bring more discernment on everything that can be said in the community. People may well claim to be permaculture, but while not respecting key principles, they are therefore not for real permaculturalists. And as Coluche said, it is not because many of them are wrong that they are necessarily right. I say that because you see when we type "permaculture" on youtube we come across the farm of Bec Hellouin yet a permacultor that I believe worthy of the name told me that at the farm of Bec Hellouin it was not really permaculture but no longer bio-intensive market gardening because several essential keys were not respected and that, on the contrary, the workers' fraternities which do not claim that permaculture so much respect many more fundamental keys of natural functioning.



PART B: THE PERMACULTURAL APPROACH

Regarding the approach to plants in permaculture, Eric Escoffier sums up quite well in the video that will follow the fundamental keys of "true permaculture". His "CV" where he trained is reassuring in this sense. To give a few names, he was therefore a "pupil" with internationally recognized permaculturer such as Bill Mollison himself, Rosemary Morrow, Geoff Lawton, Robyn Francis as well as persons recognized as Les Bourguignon and Francis Hallé and others, see here : http://permaculture-sans-frontieres.org ... -escoffier
In short, people who have proven themselves.
Moreover, you will see that he mentions the balance C / N in his scheme among other fundamental principles, as well as the fact of never burying organic matter, something that does not necessarily specify in the world of permaculture. There may be the story of Emilia Hazelip's improved compost and perennial mounds, where there may be little disagreement, I do not know. http://permaculture-sans-frontieres.org ... s-perennes

During a conversation with Eric I noticed that for permaculture / plant cultivation, in fact, it takes a bit of botany, some biology, soil micro-biology, some chemistry, some geology, some agronomy, water management, peasantry, a few fields. After that he said yes but just what is needed and just what is needed, so do not become experts in every area but know some basics with just what's helpful to understand and create productive, resilient systems etc. I find that very interesting.

Escoffier mentions 9-10 principles in the video that follows, David Holmgren mentions 12, Bill Mollison 9, and me if I rewrite this schema I personally really remember 4 paramount, 2 important:
1) - mulch
2) - C / N ratio
3) - heat / moisture conjunction (or growing season)
4) - diversity / density (plant alliance)

5) - light / shadow (steering)
6) - a good design




These are 6 keys that seem to me to be the most essential and that I want to deepen the most (I remove "reforestation" + the "PH" and "air / water ratio" which are more consequences that appear naturally and are rebalanced when we respect the other principles (mulch + C / N) as explained in the video.

PS: Regarding the design I have the impression that some permaculturists spend years thinking but if we want to start quickly without taking the head for weeks, just with the right bases of design, I think we can quickly enough once on the ground, conceptualize it. The basic knowledge of design will avoid the biggest blunders and if the design is not perfect it is not very serious. I do not know you, but sometimes I have the impression in the design they take the head for not much. It becomes more perfectionism. Basically the design I see it useful for the biggest stuff, like considering strategic locations and relevant actions on a terrain according to a bit of topography, climate, wind, contour lines, nature of the soils, but it There are some 1000 elements at once I feel, but we are not computers oh.


Eric Escoffier develops these points more in depth during these long trainings but I would like to understand several of these keys on this forum that I highlighted in yellow.


PART C: NOTES:

I share some of my notes, following a short training of 2 days with Escoffier:

a) - The dead roots fertilize the soil; when cutting branches, in parallel it kills part of the roots (like a mirror effect) (it seems to me that it is me who is written on the mirror effect, I interpreted it like that from what I thought I understood)

b) - concerning erosion, false thought: to believe that there is a difference between dry and wet soil, actually dry = wet, the only difference lies in the amount of water. dry = dust; wet = mud. A wet soil is the death of plants.
It's the Air / Water ratio; example: lung of fish = water +++ / air; human lung = water / air +++; the same for trees, this report must be considered. question: what is the humidity percentage? humidity in air / water ratio? because humidity ≠ water
I would like to understand the humidity also please, and also have more info on the humidity / heat ratio because yet he still talks about the fact that when it rains and it's hot it's good for plants and that a growing season is needed. So rain and / or water brings humidity no matter what? I would like to understand this point, thank you, the link between water and humidity too. (see f) also highlighted in yellow)


c) - the thickness of the mulch depends on the climate. Can you enlighten me on this if possible

d) - control the shadow level nuances (Eric.Esc finds that the large permaculturists do not insist enough on this point)

e) - humus at an optimal C / N and a neutral Ph

f) -no matter cold or hot climate, the most important is a heat / humidity conjunction; vegetative season / growing season.
I have a lot of trouble finding information on this subject on the internet do you know any books, articles, videos on this subject?(I hope to find about this in Mollison's books if not).

g) - if you have all the diseases, all the pests etc it is a balanced system and none predominates predominantly, example: too many slugs = signal of a lack of elements of diversity or a bad interaction. (In a natural environment the disease does not exist)

h) - permaculture design is the science of hyperproductive system design; in a design the decoration and aesthetics hardly matter.


Thank you for enlightening me with kindness by sharing your comments!
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Antoche
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Antoche » 11/03/18, 22:58

Thinking about it, I also have another question: it was mentioned in the video, if I understood correctly, that the minerals of water become assimilable by the plant only by the action of the mycorrhizae.

(Small parallel with the human body: It makes me think of a video that explained that for example the minerals in vegetable juices are comparable and on the contrary that the minerals of water bottles are not assimilated by the human body. sometimes we advocate some brand of water rich in minerals but not assimilable by the body and therefore useless ...)

So when we water the plants what happens when there are mycorrhizae? and without mycorrhiza? Especially on this story of minerals.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by izentrop » 12/03/18, 16:21

Hello,
I do not have much knowledge on the subject, but as nobody has any idea to answer you, I allow myself to intervene.
For a lot of your questions, you can find answers with the search engines.
a) - when cutting branches, in parallel it kills some of the roots
"The plant balances its quantity of roots with its quantity of foliage. A tree whose branches are cut will reduce its roots in proportion without changing its roots. Some will die, others will remain. It is therefore illusory to want to solve problems. house foundation by reducing the foliage of the tree. "" https://www.designvegetal.com/gadrat/r/ ... acine.html
b) - concerning erosion, false thought: to believe that there is a difference between dry and wet soil, actually dry = wet, the only difference lies in the amount of water. dry = dust; wet = mud. A wet soil is the death of plants.
It is rather a question of worked soil or grass and soil type for erosion. A tilled and sloping sandy soil will erode faster than a prairie soil with a good humus rate. The death of plants is a soil packed, poorly ventilated, lack of humus or hydrophobic, or polluted for various reasons, we can not generalize http://unt.unice.fr/uoh/degsol/infiltra ... lement.php
c) - the thickness of the mulch depends on the climate.
For the thickness of humus, it is a question of temperature and weathering. In tropical forest there is practically no humus, all the fertility is in the vegetation.
It is accepted that the rate of chemical reactions doubles for each temperature increase of 10 ° C. This is not an absolute law, but it indicates the importance of energy in chemical and biochemical reactions. These reactions can not take place without the presence of water. The environments that lead to a strong chemical alteration are therefore hot and humid environments.
As we will see later, the decomposition of organic matter in the soil plays an important role in the physical and chemical properties of the soil (see Essential on the Decomposition of Organic Matter). This decomposition is done by living organisms present in the soil. Below a temperature of about 4 ° C, bacteria and life in the soil do not work anymore or very slowly. There is no more decomposition of the organic matter, which favors its accumulation. Cold environments are therefore environments that promote the accumulation of organic matter and where chemical weathering is extremely low. http://unt.unice.fr/uoh/degsol/formation-sol.php#climat
It may not have been your question, yes, but that's my answer! (Georges Marchais)
d) - control shadow level nuances
Depends on plant preferences. Carrots prefer full light, squash (large leaves support shade, but like warmth).
e) - humus at an optimal C / N and a neutral Ph
"Humus is a flexible and aerated material, which absorbs and retains water well, of variable pH depending on whether the organic matter is bound or not to minerals" https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus
f) -no matter cold or hot climate, the most important is a heat / humidity conjunction; vegetative season / growing season.
Light, air, water, fertility, heat ...
g) - ... In a natural environment the disease does not exist.
Yeah! growing plants is not natural. Man has always manipulated it for his own benefit, so "Working with nature rather than against it" remains a struggle where we must come out a winner. Pests have a great capacity to multiply and cultivate among a jungle of plants that pump the resources of our dear cultivated plants, we must make a choice :|
h) - permaculture design is the science of hyperproductive system design
There too, there is contradiction. Highly productive and sustainable is mechanized and robotic conservation agriculture, with mineral fertilizer and phyto-rational fertilization, not Bill Mollison mandalas https://www.4emesinge.com/la-bible-de-l ... re-en-pdf/

Everyone does not want to go back and put their hands in the ground.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Ahmed » 13/03/18, 13:11

On the first point, I do not know if cutting branches causes a decrease in root volume, but what is very visible is on the contrary a vigorous response of the root system during a severe amputation of the branching. This is easily explained by the reserves stored at the roots which tend to reconstitute as quickly as possible the integrity of the surface of the solar collectors that feed them.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by izentrop » 13/03/18, 16:15

And what is the answer? the branches start to grow faster? I also suppose it depends on the time of year. If it's winter, for a deciduous tree, no problem for tadpole trees and others will not recover from a severe cut.

We can not give a simple and unique answer, again.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Ahmed » 13/03/18, 20:36

It goes without saying that I only envisioned a cut respecting the horticultural "good practices" and that an intervention in full growing season would not have the same result. It is a usual practice for plants which have had difficulties of recovery and in which this has caused deformations: it suffices to wait for the sign of a resumption of growth to appear and then to cut back * the plant without sap. ; The tree will emit several vigorous shoots and, if one wishes to obtain a beautiful stem, it is enough to select it: all the sap of the powerful root system will then concentrate on it the supply of sap and allow it to quickly catch up with the previous height.
It is for the same reason that it is not wise to cut the tree tops too close to the houses, because the height gain will be very temporary and will inevitably lead to new pruning fees ...

* Recépé: cut almost to the ground, above the collar.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by izentrop » 14/03/18, 00:15

Thank you Ahmed, we recognize the pro : Wink:
That's what I thought for sustainable plant cultivation. The phenoculture is of the same order, but requires a contribution of external biomass.
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Carl » 14/03/18, 22:52

izentrop wrote:Thank you Ahmed, we recognize the pro : Wink:
That's what I thought for sustainable plant cultivation. The phenoculture is of the same order, but requires a contribution of external biomass.

A real pleasure to discover this video!
Thanks izentrop!
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Adept of laziness and sensitive to the quality of what my family consumes, I wish to make a vegetable garden of the lazy!
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by izentrop » 14/03/18, 23:42

Carl wrote:A real pleasure to discover this video!
Thanks izentrop!
He is also the founder and editor of the site and the journal TCS. https://agriculture-de-conservation.com/
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Re: THE FOUNDATIONS OF A GOOD CULTURE OF PLANTS




by Antoche » 15/03/18, 18:17

It is rather a question of worked soil or grass and soil type for erosion. A tilled and sloping sandy soil will erode faster than a prairie soil with a good humus rate. The death of plants is a soil packed, poorly ventilated, lack of humus or hydrophobic, or polluted for various reasons, we can not generalize

To go back to what I said where I wrote "b) - concerning erosion, false thought: believing that there is no difference between dry and wet soil, in reality dry = wet, the only difference lies in the quantity of water. dry = dust; wet = mud. Wet soil kills plants. "

What you say goes back to what I said, I think. Indeed a soil with humus will drink water. This point was also related to the flood case I think at the seminar. There was an example given in Africa during the rainy season there is heavy flooding the ground does not accept all this rainwater. The soil is dry as normal and as soon as it rains the soil releases the water and it becomes mud on the surface. In the jungle and in the forest the phenomena of floods do not arrive normally.

plant cultivation is not natural
Certainly, but the more we will have diversity / density, the closer we will get to the natural model. In the approach of permaculture one will choose intelligently the plants that one wants by imitating, keeping as much as possible the various operations of the nature. The more we intervene the less we let the natural operations. The whole thing is to try to keep the desired balance, what a funct. natu. we keep, which we reject. We must weigh the pros and cons according to its interests and objectives.

There too, there is contradiction. Highly productive and sustainable is mechanized and robotic conservation agriculture, with mineral fertilizer and phyto-rational fertilization, not Bill Mollison mandalas

I do not think there is a contradiction. One of the initial goals in permaculture is to have a system of very productive crops. And some they are doing very well.

I invite you to watch this report with Mollison in 2 games if you have time.

(in the second part he is talking about the ground)
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