Compost / nettle manure / watering

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
BEABA
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Compost / nettle manure / watering




by BEABA » 07/03/17, 22:07

Bonjour,

I am a young convert to econology .....

1) I did not quite understand why the compost so recommended in the vegetable literature is not "the ideal fertilizer".

2) what use for nettle manure?

3) what is the best way to manage watering when sowing or planting in the hay layer?

Thank you for your answers
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 07/03/17, 22:36

BABA wrote:Bonjour,

I am a young convert to econology .....

1) I did not quite understand why the compost so recommended in the vegetable literature is not "the ideal fertilizer".



1) It is a shame to reduce the supply of organic matter to a question of fertilizer. The error is there!

I expect from a layer of hay a whole set of things, which can be grouped into 4 "groups":

a) prevent light and therefore the germination of annual weeds: no need to hoe / weed

b) protect the soil against attack (rain, wind, sun): the soil remains loose, it keeps water ...

c) feed all living organisms in the soil, which like us need organic matter full of energy: earthworms, springtails, iules, woodlice, bacteria, fungi and many others. Well nourished, these organisms "loosen" the soil, which becomes "loose" on its own. They stir it up. They mix humic substances and mineral elements, etc ... And as we have just seen, the layer then protects ...

d) The decomposition of organic matter, while nourishing organisms (because "decomposition" is only a bad word to say that organisms feed!), will give on the one hand mineral elements (therefore play the same role as a "fertilizer") and on the other hand, humic substances, which will improve the soil in the long term ...

So the compost only does the d) ...

The decomposition was done in heaps. The energy has gone into heat. The "improving" effect is greatly reduced. It is basically a slow acting organic fertilizer, also providing some humic substances.

Soil organisms (except some bacteria that take care of the final decomposition) remain hungry throughout the cultivated part of the soil. It is only at the heap level that they are well fed. But there, we don't cultivate.

So it's not bad. It's just a big waste compared to all that one could make of it by distributing the same biomass on all the surface of the ground!

If we want to "garden lazy", therefore to do a minimum, the organizations must do as much as possible. So feed them!
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 07/03/17, 22:38

BABA wrote:
2) what use for nettle manure?



In my lazy vegetable garden, making liquid manure is too much work. I get great results without ... So I don't get tired.

I think that a very active life in the soil is much more important than the small effect that this decoction could have ... But this is only my opinion.
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 07/03/17, 22:44

BABA wrote:
3) what is the best way to manage watering when sowing or planting in the hay layer?



The hay must be spread as long as it rains, so that it moistens without taking moisture from the soil.

Then, depending on the year, I don't water. In Alsace, vegetables generally do well with soil water reserves (except 2015 - minor drought) [the rainfall in Alsace is only 750 mm]

I also put a little BRF on my flower beds, to stimulate the fungi in the soil (there is a video on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69HMVyFelkI).

Mushrooms "hold" water. They are able to extract it with 6 times more "force" than plants. They associate with the roots of most vegetables, in a symbiosis called mycorrhizae, which allows plants to explore soil 100 times more than they would with their roots. The fungi are stimulated by wood supply (lignin is the constituent of wood).

In extreme cases (drought) I sprinkle drip on my vegetable lines (this is one of the reasons why I continue to cultivate in lines).
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by izentrop » 08/03/17, 12:29

Hello,
The scientific council of the SNHF studied the real effects of nettle slurries.
Regarding nettle maceration (nettle liquid), no scientific results allow to conclude to date
to a positive or negative effect. https://www.snhf.org/wp-content/uploads ... dortie.pdf
Hervé Coves, poet agronomist advocates the holistic fight against pests and in this video he finds a use in nettle manure against aphids ???
The smell would defeat the normal function of a centipede, prompting it to climb on the plant. Unable to turn around, it would destroy all the aphids encountered in its path. Arrived at the top, a sheet would allow him to set out again in the other direction and again the machine gun while going down ... Pulled by the hair, not?
https://jardincomestible.fr/videos/la-g ... -pucerons/
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 08/03/17, 12:47

I did not write that it was useless. I wrote that I get good results without it, so I don't get tired.

There are at least two avenues which can give hope for a non-negligible effect, but which do not necessarily “materialize” (do not translate into effects) in a “conventional” test. Most of these tests are loaded because the "other factors" are conventional: uncovered soils, use of fertilizers, varieties, plowing and tillage, other treatments (than that tested), etc ...

Basically, imagine a very fine spice, with a very subtle taste.

You test it in a suitable dish. It jumps out at you.

Or you test it in a McDonald's stuffed with glutamate, bad fats and too much salt ... You will inevitably conclude that it does not feel anything! So the spice doesn't work!

So, alas, the trials have limits. For example, half of the BRF tests show a scientifically observed "depressive effect" (but not always scientifically analyzed: ki2 test, repetitions, analysis of variance - there is something to say about what is sometimes called tests !). At home, repeatedly, I still have explosive growth on BRF! Why: living soil! No traces of fungicides! "True" BRF (only branches of less than 4 cm; the maximum that my shredder digests) ... So a whole "system", that few tests do ... So it measures the effect of pissing in a piano on a Bach sonata !!!

So my two tracks, to come back to it:

- nettle is a remarkable extractor of minerals; decoctions are therefore rich in minerals and amino acids; one cannot a priori exclude an effect of foliar fertilization and "strengthening" of the tissues, stimulation of natural defenses (as with certain rock powders, etc ...)

- communication between plants, and between plants and animals, takes place with certainty through gases (the ripening of fruits - the tomato - by ethylene is known; the capacity of a plant attacked by a parasite to emit a gas which leads to a chemical modification of its neighbors to increase their resistance is there too, more and more, supported; even if the research - except the famous blow of gazelles and acacias documented in South Africa since the 80s - are still very incomplete); I do not exclude that in the decoctions of certain plants there are gaseous "signals" favorable to the resistance of the plants ...

But as said, I have very good results without all this work. So I don't do it!
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by izentrop » 08/03/17, 13:30

I know your point of view, it is the rational that interests me.
A chemical substance which induces survival behavior in a plant is entirely compatible with the "theory of evolution".
On the other hand, I wonder about the rational part of Hervé Coves' speech, knowing that he is also a Franciscan Oblate http://www.fratgsa.org/franciscains.htm
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 08/03/17, 13:52

I oblige myself, by correction, to answer the questions of my readers.

I replied to the one concerning nettle manure.

Following your reaction, and always along the lines of the question, I answer.

We can wonder about everything. It is even legitimate (even if there are many ego battles, and interrogations which are affirmations - when these are not attempts to settle scores). But that's not the issue here!

The moderation of econology is very flexible (I have used my rights only for questionable commercial operations akin to scam attempts).

I therefore invite you to open all the interrogative debates that you want, but not to "embed" your debates in questions that do not ask them ...
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by izentrop » 08/03/17, 21:06

Excuse me if I could hurt, it was only out of clumsiness.
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Re: Compost / nettle manure / watering




by Did67 » 08/03/17, 22:16

I reassure you, I am not hurt.

But is it useful that all the threads become debates about what is "scientific" or what is science or evolution or all those philosophical topics ???

I think not, and all the more so since there is all the space available to conduct this kind of debate.

Here we are on simple questions asked by BEABA. I gave my answers (obviously, it was in reference to what I could write about the vegetable garden of the lazy, indirectly quoted without mentioning it).

You will note that I did not close the debate: I said what I am doing. Others can provide other answers - "scientific", "esoteric", whatever ... It would be up to BEABA to choose. I would never do it for him!
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