Tubes per or copper tube?

[ganmat]

Per pipes for sanitary and heating are very practical for installation.
What are their disadvantages?
Price? Reliability over time? Leaks? Health?
If I understood correctly in a heated floor we can put per tube, what diameter 16 or 20 ???
Who can answer me?
I build in wood, very well insulated.
Goods.
Food

[Christophe]

For me there is nothing wrong with PER ... if you take it with an oxygen barrier ...

By cons if it is easier to work than copper, it is not necessarily cheaper in the end. Good bi cone compression fittings will cost you 5 to 6 € each ... with 1st prices (3 to 4 €) you have to stuff like crazy to make them waterproof ...

Wood and heated floors = incompatible or did I miss a step?

Generally the PC tubes are 16 mm ... 20 mm has no advantage in my opinion ...

[Pierre17800]

Hello,
I made a floor heating with PER tube.
There are no particular problems: except that you need a tube with BAO (oxygen barrier) or put a special additive in the heat transfer fluid if the floor is already made with normal tubes.
Then the sun should never overlook the pipe. UV rays destroy PER. So be careful with the outputs of the collector: they should not be placed facing a window.
When the diameter of the tubes is a heat exchange problem.
Tube 20 will have a larger surface area of ​​equal length.
It is necessary to make a thermal balance piece by piece and according to the length of pipe which one can lay one determines the diameter.
Kind regards.

[greg]

Hello
according to my plumber, the two-tone fittings do not resist very well in the installations when there are water hammer. it therefore prefers fittings to slide (quite expensive) or to pinch (inexpensive but you need the pliers which easily costs more than 200 € depending on the brand)
greg

[Christophe]

Greg in a heating installation there is no reason to have hammer and for the sanitary if you have it is that your plumber has done his job poorly or that you have poor quality taps.

Then there is always the possibility of putting one or more anti ram. Logically there should be (at least) a water hammer on all the installations. A long blocked tube is enough ...

Tube 20 will have a larger surface area of ​​equal length.
It is necessary to make a thermal balance piece by piece and according to the length of pipe which one can lay one determines the diameter.
Kind regards.

Yes, except that the surface is not everything: another determining factor in the heat exchange is the flow regime. Contrary to an idea received: the faster the fluid goes into the tube, the better the heat exchange!

So I am not sure that on the same circulator a 20 mm pipe diffuses more calories than a 16 mm pipe ...

By cons 20 mm will have less pressure drop but personally I have never seen a PC in 20 mm ...on the contrary Tigger has a heating floor with 8/6 mm tubes with a double layer (round trip in one) in order to homogenize the T ° and avoid thermal stress.

See here: https://www.econologie.com/maison-electr ... -3779.html
and here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/l-installa ... t5200.html

ps: for UV I ignored this! Thank you for the info!

[coucou789456]

Hello

in my house, the sanitary is entirely in PER and dates from the year 1993, without particular concerns, except the expansion of the pipes for certain radiators which come off the wall and their support when the heating is active!

jeff

[ganmat]

Ooh La La!!
I still feel so ignorant !!
What is a water hammer in sanitary ?????

thanks guys
Food

[boubka]

Hello
copper has proven itself for a long time, however, it has been searching for more than ten years.
now the per correctly implemented with the appropriate equipment can surely live as much .... provided you respect its use
the per for underfloor heating expands a lot (per brico truc), it is not at all suitable for radiator heating; there is per which hardly expands and special heating (more expensive, the interior is teflon)
for fittings, avoid O-ring fittings because the rubber does not hold over time
favor the olive connection, or even better with open olive (reusable).
and the crimp fittings are doubtful ..... (sometimes it works well, sometimes much less)
for
in conclusion
the per yes but provided you put the right equipment and the right price

[ganmat]

I just saw an ad for multi-layer tubes for sanitary and underfloor heating. It is Per xc of aluminum glued on top and white pe in finish glued on.
What do you think about this?
It would be moldable by hand, although more rigid than the per and it is said to be impermeable to oxygen.
By the way, how is a BAO (oxygen barrier ??
Thanks guys for your answers, you're a little bit like Zorro !!! who comes to save us from a dead end !!
Food

[Christophe]

I used it like that (in 16 mm): it's more flexible than it looks and you can hope to make radii of curvature of 5 to 10 cm ...

BAO wouldn't be aluminum, right?

Here is a lot of photo of our installation: https://www.econologie.com/forums/chaudiere- ... t4589.html
et https://www.econologie.com/forums/photos-et- ... t4368.html

The good thing about PER is if you like it (like me! Hihihi) you can easily recycle the coins ... less obvious with copper!