Energy Labeling / Manufacturer Data: Scam?!?

[St1ngy]

Hello everyone,

I have been chasing waste for some time and I have just measured the water consumption of my dishwasher and washing machine ...

Candy C2 145 washing machine, manufacturer data, 39 l for a cotton cycle at 60 ° C and 0,95 KWh / cycle

Personally I do not reach less than 53 l on a synthetic cycle at 30 ° C with almost clean linen.

At the sight of my EDF meter the washing machine consumes no less than 1 kWh per cycle ... with already hot water from a wood boiler.

But physically it takes 870 Wh to heat 15l of water from 10 ° C to 60 ° C ... not to mention the losses and other yields <100%. This leaves 180 Wh to run the drum and pump motors for almost 2 hours ... in short I have a doubt but I will wait I wait for a kill-a-watt to get an info at 1 / 10th of kWh.


For the dishwasher:
Manufacturer data: 1,05 kWh / cycle and 12 l.

Same as with the washing machine the water is preheated to 50 ° C and the dishes are not dirty, the consumption is around 1,5 kWh and 14 l of water.

The appliances have been descaled recently.

By reading European texts
(from http://ec.europa.eu/energy/efficiency/l ... ing_en.htm

it's easier)

there is no mention of the initial water temperature ... which is misleading and for a Swedish in Sweden makes the bill heavier than for a Swedish in Greece ... or in France in this case.

15 l of water from 0 to 60 ° C is already 1,047 kWh so the consumption is 950 Wh / cycle.

This means that manufacturers obtain their label by washing clean, hyrophobic (or already wet) laundry with already heated water.

If other people had taken the time to measure what their devices actually consume and could post them here I would be super interested to see how much we do -bleep-
!

Cheers

[Christophe]

Hi and welcome here!

Not read the message, just the title, we seriously looked into the question of the real consumption of household appliances with measurements by different members a few months ago concerning dishwashers / washing machines and here are the results: https://www.econologie.com/forums/lave-vaiss ... 10814.html

The results are more or less consistent (with of course the 20 or 30% error) but if there is a real and confirmed scam in household appliances it is that of planned obsolescence !

Debate: https://www.econologie.com/forums/l-obsolesc ... t9854.html
Video: https://www.econologie.com/pret-a-jeter- ... -4380.html
https://www.econologie.com/l-obsolescenc ... -4381.html
Ratio: https://www.econologie.com/l-obsolescenc ... -4311.html

[Christophe]

Ay I read!

Candy C2 145 washing machine, manufacturer data, 39 l for a cotton cycle at 60 ° C and 0,95 KWh / cycle

Personally I do not reach less than 53 l on a synthetic cycle at 30 ° C with almost clean linen.

This is not too surprising ... the more heat you have, the less water you need to clean.

Did you take a water reading with a 60 ° C cycle?

At 40 ° C mine consumes about 0.5kWh per cycle (on cold water, I only put my dishwasher on hot water), figure to find on https://www.econologie.com/forums/lave-vaiss ... 10814.html

At the sight of my EDF meter the washing machine consumes no less than 1 kWh per cycle ... with already hot water from a wood boiler.

Difficult to know if you don't have a plug meter ... There are lots of hidden consumption in a home ...

Here are 2 models: https://www.econologie.com/shop/wattmetr ... p-380.html et https://www.econologie.com/shop/prise-el ... p-238.html

But physically it takes 870 Wh to heat 15l of water from 10 ° C to 60 ° C ... not to mention the losses and other yields <100%. This leaves 180 Wh to run the drum and pump motors for almost 2 hours ... in short I have a doubt but I will wait I wait for a kill-a-watt to get an info at 1 / 10th of kWh.

80 to 90% of consumption is actually heating, it is consistent. A washing machine motor generally consumes 250 to 350W at peak (i.e. spin only), less than 100W the rest of the time. So 1 hour continuously = less than 0.1 kWh

For the dishwasher:
Manufacturer data: 1,05 kWh / cycle and 12 l.

Same as with the washing machine the water is preheated to 50 ° C and the dishes are not dirty, the consumption is around 1,5 kWh and 14 l of water.

Same in "eco" mode on mine.
In 30 min mode I go under 1kWh on hot water (in fact there was very little difference when connecting to hot water, see subject https://www.econologie.com/forums/lave-vaiss ... 10814.html )

there is no mention of the initial water temperature ... which is misleading and for a Swedish in Sweden makes the bill heavier than for a Swedish in Greece ... or in France in this case.

It seems to me that I saw the T ° cold water somewhere (notice, standard ...), I believe 15 ° C?

This means that manufacturers obtain their label by washing clean, hyrophobic (or already wet) laundry with already heated water.

At 60 ° C the consumption of mine is close to 2kWh ... and it is sure that at 60 ° C it is not an "eco" cycle ...

If other people had taken the time to measure what their devices actually consume and could post them here I would be super interested to see how much we do -bleep-
!

Yes we did, see in the other aforementioned subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/lave-vaiss ... 10814.html

We are bleeping from 20 to 30% (concerning me ...) and it's not worse than the car manufacturers ...

[St1ngy]

B'oir,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and send me back to the LV thread on ECS (I have nevertheless searched for it) ... I have read a few posts and there are few good surprises.

Did you take a water reading with a 60 ° C cycle?

Yes it's even more (59l) ... finally now that I have a permanent counter on the LL I will be able to monitor the consumptions more finely by sub-cycles.

Difficult to know if you don't have a plug meter ...

I have an EDF electronic meter in the middle of an extension cord ... so dedicated but not accurate to 1/10 ... but I should receive my "Kill-a-Watt" shortly.

It seems to me that I saw the T ° cold water somewhere (notice, standard ...), I believe 15 ° C?

I just reread
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 063:EN:PDF
et
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 016:EN:PDF

And there is no mention of the inlet temperature ... however there is a margin of error authorized on the measurements of 10% (19% on drying) ... what the manufacturers must to exploit.

But the differences in consumption are explained:
The consumption (water or electric) is calculated on the weighted average of 3 washes 1 load at 60, 2 washes 1/2 load at 60 and 2 washes 1/2 load at 40.

We are bleeping from 20 to 30% (concerning me ...) and it's not worse than the car manufacturers ...

Once again, the measurement standards are absolutely not representative of the use of an LL or LV from average Beijing.

Who does 3 full loads and 4 half loads in the week 31 weeks per year ??? Personally, we are 5 full 52 weeks a year.

Brief for the Brussels egg skulls (3 + 2x (1/2) +2 (1/2)) / 7 = 5/5 or 0.71 = 1 which explains my consumption: 39 / 0.71 = 54.6 we don't is far from the mark (53l).


PS: Forget me, the LV is a Siemens SF66T373EU / 10 on the Eco cycle at 50 ° C.

[St1ngy]

WATER


Washing machine given for 39l cotton:
Average synthetic consumption 30 or 40: 53 l
Average consumption Cotton 40 or 60: 59 l

Or + 36% Synth and + 51% Cotton.

Dishwasher given for 12 l in Eco 50 ° C cycle:
Average consumption 14l

Or + 17%

So nice water scam.


ELECTRICITY

Washing machine given for 0.950 kWh / cotton cycle 60 ° C
Off: 0.7 W
Standby: 3.7 W (delayed start)

with preheated water
Synth 30 or 40: 0.184 kWh / cycle
Cotton 60: 0.675 kWh / cycle (water temperature allowed 55 ° C = max thermostatic)

Cotton swims in delirium: 20 l of water from 15 to 55 ° is 0.928 kWh or 1.603 kWh / cycle

Electricity + 70% of the consumption announced.


Dishwasher given for 1.05 kWh in Eco 50 ° C

Off: 0 W
Standby: 1.7 W
Consumption 0.986 kWh / cycle with water at 60 ° C + (no thermostatic)

So 1.05 kWh is a pure illusion.

The pb of the dishwasher is that it keeps the last rinse water drying to do the next prewash ... and since the volumes of water are low the body temperature of the dishwasher and the dishes are cooling factors important. It is therefore necessary to empty the water and scald the dishes before the cycle starts.

Finally we get bleeped by the manufacturers of household appliances far beyond what car manufacturers do.