Well, the following month I will have a 3000 liter tank installed to collect rainwater.
It is a plastic tank used in advance for septic tanks.
So less expensive than a dedicated tank.
I then intend to connect it by a hose to the water meter (just behind this one), in order to be able to fully supply the house.
A manual valve will be used to cut off access to the tank in case.
A pump with booster will have the pressure necessary to have it at the tap.
This water will be used for everything that is shower, toilet, washing machine etc.
An additional tap with micro-filtration will be installed on the kitchen sink to be able to use it for drinking and maybe also on the bathroom sink, to be able to brush my teeth.
As for the washing machine, I thought to deactivate the resistance, and put a thermostatic that I can adjust to my convenience just out of the solar tank.
In this way I will be able to choose between a program at 30 or 60 ° C on the machine.
By cons no program at 90 ° C unless reconnect the resistance.
But who washes at 90 ° C these days?
By cons the main problem: how to rinse with cold water?
Can we rinse at the end with hot water?
How can we get cold water to be chosen automatically?
I had thought in the case of an electro-mechanical switch, to tinker with a connection from the thermostat of the resistance and to stick a pump / valve to choose the type of water.
PS / Edit: Here is who could do the trick:
http://www.alfamix.france-allemagne.net/alfamix.php
RE edit: Here is the thing!
http://www.solaire-connexion.com/docume ... ine_open=8
By cons I do not know what is the type of operation.
By clock?
In this case how can he know when to use cold water?
Your opinions ?
Using a rainwater tank with washing machine
Using a rainwater tank with washing machine
Last edited by netshaman the 30 / 05 / 11, 18: 04, 1 edited once.
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Re: Use of a rainwater tank
It is strictly forbidden (in France) to connect (even with valves and non-return valves) a water circuit at both arrivals (in order to ensure the impossibility of returning your water to the public network).netshaman wrote:I then intend to connect it by a hose to the water meter (just behind this one), in order to be able to fully supply the house.
There are only two legal solutions:
- a double water circuit in the house
- physically disconnect the water meter.
It is unfortunately very difficult to automate the arrival of hot water in a washing machine.netshaman wrote:I had thought in the case of an electro-mechanical switch, to tinker with a connection from the thermostat of the resistance and to stick a pump / valve to choose the type of water.
Your opinions, gentlemen engineers?
In "normal" operation, the resistance is only supplied after filling, so too late to choose the water source.
I saw timer-based tinkering for washing with hot water and then rinsing with cold water, but that requires knowing the duration of the different programs (and you have to change the setting of the timer) .
We can also count the number of solenoid valve openings to switch to cold water
Perhaps the simplest thing is to use the same water temperature for rinsing as for washing ...
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Re: Use of a rainwater tank with a machine
Yes exactly.netshaman wrote:PS / Edit: Here is who could do the trick:
http://www.alfamix.france-allemagne.net/alfamix.php
By cons I do not know what is the type of operation.
By clock?
He doesn't know: you have to tell him each time you wash (see the instructions for use available on the same site).netshaman wrote:In this case how can he know when to use cold water?
Far too expensivenetshaman wrote:Your opinions ?
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1) I broke my teeth on the LL issue.
The Alfamix is overpriced, and it takes a century of electricity savings to recover the stake (around € 200).
Rinsing with hot water: watch out for cold showers! Srokc of hot water quickly exhausted because 2 or 3 rinses!
For the moment, my "tinkering" with thermostatic mixer + by-pass has not been followed up: you have to remain seated next to it, and at the end of the washing cycle, switch two quarter-turn taps. Too many constraints. But it depends on the motivation, on the situation of the machine (in a kitchen, you can set the beeper and read the newspaper; in a dingy basement, it's more depressing!).
So I'm waiting for the death of my current machine to replace it with a machine with two inputs (they are democratizing - several German brands in particular, at acceptable prices).
2) You can imagine that in France, all regulations are made on the assumption that the citizen cheats [which is not entirely false]. So “tap off” is not an argument. You dismantle and return the meter, that's the rule!
The Alfamix is overpriced, and it takes a century of electricity savings to recover the stake (around € 200).
Rinsing with hot water: watch out for cold showers! Srokc of hot water quickly exhausted because 2 or 3 rinses!
For the moment, my "tinkering" with thermostatic mixer + by-pass has not been followed up: you have to remain seated next to it, and at the end of the washing cycle, switch two quarter-turn taps. Too many constraints. But it depends on the motivation, on the situation of the machine (in a kitchen, you can set the beeper and read the newspaper; in a dingy basement, it's more depressing!).
So I'm waiting for the death of my current machine to replace it with a machine with two inputs (they are democratizing - several German brands in particular, at acceptable prices).
2) You can imagine that in France, all regulations are made on the assumption that the citizen cheats [which is not entirely false]. So “tap off” is not an argument. You dismantle and return the meter, that's the rule!
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Super, we take honest citizens for thieves, it's fun!
And during this time, these dear legislators who take us for thieves, swindle with all their might ...
It is he who says who is, as usual!
If there were less inequality, people would be less likely to eat away I think because they would be less frustrated.
It is proven, it is the successive frustrations that this company generates which causes the increase of the "criminality" towards it.
Buy this, buy this, the last laptop / car / iphone etc, you can't, take a credit, you can't repay, we take everything, it's good for you, and ask!
Ben voila, they are asking for yours!
To believe that everything is organized to aggravate this state of things and trigger a clash / revolution, as if it was wanted even by those who do not want it (unconsciously).
Oh good because you find it expensive compared to a new machine or a solar system?
From 1200 to 5000 €?
Er, aren't you exaggerating a little?
How many tens of centuries for the machine then and the solar system?
If I continue this reasoning, it would be better to stay on fossil fuels for less and it is not worth it to be green!
Ok, it doesn't bother me!
If it works, no problem, that's the goal I pursue!
I would no longer need this counter in the end!
And it will save me money!
And during this time, these dear legislators who take us for thieves, swindle with all their might ...
It is he who says who is, as usual!
If there were less inequality, people would be less likely to eat away I think because they would be less frustrated.
It is proven, it is the successive frustrations that this company generates which causes the increase of the "criminality" towards it.
Buy this, buy this, the last laptop / car / iphone etc, you can't, take a credit, you can't repay, we take everything, it's good for you, and ask!
Ben voila, they are asking for yours!
To believe that everything is organized to aggravate this state of things and trigger a clash / revolution, as if it was wanted even by those who do not want it (unconsciously).
The Alfamix is overpriced, and it takes a century of electricity savings to recover the stake (around € 200).
Oh good because you find it expensive compared to a new machine or a solar system?
From 1200 to 5000 €?
Er, aren't you exaggerating a little?
How many tens of centuries for the machine then and the solar system?
If I continue this reasoning, it would be better to stay on fossil fuels for less and it is not worth it to be green!
You disassemble and return the meter, that's the rule!
Ok, it doesn't bother me!
If it works, no problem, that's the goal I pursue!
I would no longer need this counter in the end!
And it will save me money!
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netshaman wrote:
Oh good because you find it expensive compared to a new machine or a solar system?
From 1200 to 5000 €?
Er, aren't you exaggerating a little?
How many tens of centuries for the machine then and the solar system?
If I continue this reasoning, it would be better to stay on fossil fuels for less and it is not worth it to be green!
Bad pick, my little boy: I have a CESI, I bazardée my fuel oil boiler (functional) by a condensing pellet boiler, among others ...
When I installed my CESI, I could get away with it in about 15 years (compared to fuel oil) ... I was not sure it would last until then, but hey, let's go ...
The pellet boiler, the condensation, well, I will recover the best in 10 years (at the current prices of pellets) ... So, "it is not because a resource is renewable that it should be wasted (written more or less 3 or 4 years ago somewhere on this site) "... Let's go ...
But the alfamix, for what it is, compared to the savings that can be expected, I did not find it reasonable. I tinkered with something, which ultimately turns out to be disappointing.
NB: a CESI, it is on 50% of your consumption of DHW that you recover your stake (but as said, installed turnkey, it is difficult to "amortize"! But we can hope ...).
I may be wrong, but on this equipment, I am looking to see if the additional cost is recoverable over the life of the equipment. If so, I'll go with my eyes closed. If this is not the case, sometimes I do it by simple conviction [for example, I put a C1 on LPG; it consumes too little for it to be really "profitable", but I wanted to reduce my emissions without paying for an electric for € 35 and affording myself the luxury of polluting less than a Prius for € 000]. Sometimes, no, I don't (ex: alfamix).
To be perfectly transparent, if I had no difficulty at the end of the month, I would pay myself everything. There, since this is not the case, I try to see where 1 € invested has, in my situation to me, the best impact (knowing that I do not have 36, euros ...). I translate that quite incorrectly as "amortize". Or, sometimes, more correctly, by the "time to payback"
In short, I'm not saying: don't buy it. I say that I find that for me it is overpriced (it was implied for what it is). I would be remiss if I did not dissuade anyone from consuming less (nuclear) electricity if they did not look at the expense. Very good.
Ask yourself, the new double entry machines can be found from 550 € (about 50 € more than a machine of the same caliber / same brand) ...
So rather than buying an alfamix for a machine that is 10 years old, I am waiting for it to die and replace it with an adapted model, for a much more reasonable additional cost. If it lasts too long, I may even have it burst!
That's the whole story ...
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netshaman wrote:Super, we take honest citizens for thieves, it's fun!
If there were less inequality, people would be less likely to eat away I think because they would be less frustrated.
1) I'm just saying: all regulations are made on the assumption that naturally, people are susceptible to cheating.
I would not have allowed myself to call you a thief ...
2) Alas I fear that it is a little more complicated. I know a lot of people who could largely afford it and who cheat ...
Communism was based on an excellent philosophical principle ("to each according to his needs" ...) ...
But come on, this is not the subject.
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The meter tap may leak ...netshaman wrote:And then I said after the meter, so after the tap of the meter.
Once the meter tap is closed, there is no risk of mixing.
In this case, it is not a risk of theft, but a health risk.netshaman wrote:Super, we take honest citizens for thieves, it's fun!
If your rainwater goes back into the water supply and makes the neighbor sick, who is responsible
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