Help on making an electric moped

[soulinscraps]

hello everyone, so here, as the title suggests, I want to prepare an electric mobile to go to work.

having already done some research on the net I thought of a car starter as an engine but too fragile because it heats too much and especially too greedy, I would tend to turn rather to a washing machine engine to resume the idea of ​​a gentleman whose video is on youtube.
but I admit that my knowledge of electricity is quite limited, so I did not understand everything.

I would rather go on a basis of 103 RCX or SPX because they have a clutch which is not on the motor and which I could therefore keep with the electric motor, which could perhaps also allow me to fix the motor as a motor "floating" with an original variator fitted on it in order to be able to have more speed without forcing the motor too much.

I was also thinking of connecting one or two car alternators to increase the autonomy of the vehicle because, even if I know that it takes about 50 km for a car battery to fully recharge, I imagine that the engine will pump more than what the alternators will create as energy, I think there must be a way to manage to create enough electricity to considerably increase the range.
the or the alternator belts would obviously be driven by the axis of the engine directly because if I put them on the wheels, at low speed, the alternators will be useless since it takes about 1500 rpm for the energy is created.

so here I would like to have your opinions, especially your criticisms, and what I need, how I should go about it ...
thank you in advance to all

[I Citro]

Welcome to the forum soulinscraps.
With such a title of first subject like that you could not but attract my attention.

However, I will disappoint you for many reasons ...:

- Electrifying a thermal moped, and especially a 103, is not a good idea because the starting base is already heavy and full of architectural flaws for a conversion. I know a conversion based on 101 or 102 which is much more convincing ...

- In an electric motorization, the clutch is useless because its role is to make it possible not to stop a petrol engine each time one stops the vehicle. In electric, it is the opposite, we absolutely want to stop the electric motor at each stop so as not to consume unnecessarily ... The clutch is a wearing part, heavy and degrading mechanical performance ...

- Using motors, belts ... of automotive origin will prove to be very ineffective. They have deplorable yields, are heavy and unsuitable ... Keeping the dimmer of the moped would also be a mistake ...

Sorry for this introduction.
So I'm going to try to make up for it by stating what to do and with what ...

- Use a bicycle, possibly a strong full suspension mountain bike if you want high performance and good safety.
- Use readily available bicycle engine kits at fair prices.
There are easily 1000W motors in 36 or 48V.

- You will have the choice between brushed or brushless motors integrated in the front or rear wheel or separate motors to drive by a chain.
The controllers for these motors are generally provided in the kits.

- Finally, the question of batteries will arise, I therefore advise you against choosing lead ...

As far as I'm concerned, after thinking about the issue, I gave up this kind of hack, and my self-built recumbent bike will be equipped with a commercial kit ...

As this is a moped (moped) whose insurance (and registration card) is compulsory to circulate legally, your project will quickly become unworkable ...
We already find, from 800 € very convincing electric cyclo which, if you have itching (understandable) ) of the screwdriver, will only ask to be "improved".


To make you drool, I can't resist presenting you doctorbass and one of its cars:

Here is the link to this machine having driven at 94kmh: WORLD FASTEST ELECTRIC BICYCLE June 2009
“Killabicycle 15162 Watts”

[soulinscraps]

thank you for your citro answer and do not worry about your introduction, i am a stubborn and persevering person.
I know a little about the electric market because I was two years ago, commercial for the Matra brand producing electric GEMs and all kinds of electric bikes and cyclos offered to town halls and city dwellers.
for having tried several kinds of electric bikes, I was really not convinced by the low power (at bottom, uphill, I got overtaken by a postman with an old heavy and rotten post bike ), the low autonomy and above all, the price (around 2500 euro for a bike and 9000 euro for a cart).

as for the bicycle to electric conversion kit, I don't know if we have the same source but the 900 euro kit, it's way too expensive for me.

compared to the insurance of the moped, you are not entirely wrong, and I had not really thought about it but it is a detail.

in fact, I really want to make it myself with recycled materials that I have available for free being a mechanic today (yes, that's what conversion is) even if I hit walls to improve the afterwards.

I had chosen the frame of moped for its weight, its solidity and its handling and even if it is true that the choice of the 103 is well questioned, I always think to confine myself to this idea.

(you're absolutely right about the clutch and the unnecessary loss of energy caused by the pulley in addition to the blow)

I wanted to use automotive materials because of my job, and the fact that everything works in 12v makes things much easier.

but what do you think of the alternator principle all the same?
because if it is not viable, it is sure that the engine will drain my good old lead acid battery in two minutes.

[Aumicron]

More than an electric moped, I think you want to make a hybrid moped.

If I understood correctly, you wish to drive the wheel by an electric motor and keep the thermal engine which would recharge a battery by means of an alternator in addition to the possibility of charging it on the sector.

If that's your goal, I think your idea is great. By running your engine at the best speed, you will get less consumption and as much autonomy as you want.

But the road is long and strewn with pitfalls.

[soulinscraps]

it would be a good idea but I admit that it is not mine, in fact I want to do something very very simple to start:
a (see two later) 1.9cc diesel car starter mounted by a crankshaft pulley on its axis, an accessory belt which connects it to a (see two) alternator, then, the original transmission of the moped that you can easily adjust in torque or top speed.
that was the mechanical side, the electric side is even simpler:
a see two lead-acid batteries (I have no illusions about the lifespan of the latter) connected to a current rectifier, then to the alternators, then to the headlights, to finish the supply goes through a rheostat of Citroên bx modified which will serve as accelerator and goes to the engine.

So it's true that having everything available, I fell back on a starter motor, and then it will also be much easier for my first tests ...


to come back to your idea of ​​hybrid mob, I had already thought about it:
a fairly powerful electric motor, which does all the work (moving the vehicle forward), and, next to it, independent, a tiny miniature car thermal engine which keeps the alternators running at full speed constantly.
we obviously adjust this small engine so that it consumes as little as possible while effectively driving the alternators.

[Christophe]

Do you want to keep the pedals on your mob or not? Do not laugh in my time, 95-2000, all mobs, or almost, had original pedals !!

If yes then it will rather be an electric bike and in this case I refer you to this very complete subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fabriquer- ... vt947.html

Good luck anyway!

[I Citro]

thank you for your citro answer and do not worry about your introduction, i am a stubborn and persevering person.
I know a little about the electric market because I was two years ago, commercial for the Matra brand producing electric GEMs and all kinds of electric bikes and cyclos offered to town halls and city dwellers.
for having tried several kinds of electric bikes, I was really not convinced by the low power (at bottom, uphill, I got overtaken by a postman with an old heavy and rotten post bike ), the low autonomy and above all, the price (around 2500 euro for a bicycle and 9000 euro for a cart)

I agree with you for the prices charged by Matra on non-Asian and fairly elaborate products.
I have never tried the BION'X engine of Canadian origin of I'Step but it is sure that it is less efficient than some Chinese products.
nlc, made high-performance electric bikes (50kmh) for less than € 500.
You will find several topics here including that one.

The use of 12V is a very bad idea. The designer of the Peugeot scooter (in 18V) that Dirk Pitt and I use, recognized it.
Such a low voltage limits the speed of rotation of the motors and degrades the overall efficiency because it considerably increases (at equal power) the operating current, which requires cables of very large sections and causes significant losses by the Joule effect. Dirk, highlighted them this year with thermographies of his scooter ...

I know the Citroën BX well for having had one, I don't see what rheostat you are talking about. The choice of the rheostat is also a very utopian view of the rational management of an electric motor.
With a rheostat, you will vary the power supply to the CURRENT (A) by varying the resistance in the rheostat.
Putting aside the difficulty (impossibility?) Of finding a rheostat capable of passing the necessary power, the method is not good ...
It is necessary, to make the best use of the power of the batteries, to manage the motor in VOLTAGE and INTENSITY ... Only current choppers or PWM circuits (Impulse Width Modulation) currently allow this to be done properly.

I recall that the voltage applied to the terminals of the motor gives its speed of rotation and the intensity gives the torque of the motor.
At start-up, you must provide a high amperage with a low voltage, adapted to the necessary speed, the surplus is waste dissipated in the form of heat ...

[Cuicui]

one (see two below) 1.9cc diesel car starter

Maybe one or two 24 V truck fan motors (I don't know the power).

[soulinscraps]

I know the Citroën BX well for having had one, I don't see what rheostat you are talking about

I'm talking about the dashboard lighting dimmer, in my sweet idyllic dream I told myself that it could do the trick ... (it is used to cut or intensify the dashboard lighting with headlights on and it is a wheel which is under the steering wheel.

It is true that the problems you raise are very real and I discussed it with my electrician brother at the moment, it is not won but in any case, we will first try to do something that works. in any case, on the choice of the motor, I am not at all limited because a simple transformer can do the trick therefore washing machine motor in 9v, portable drill in 18v (6000rpm) or truck fan in 24v, I would see what seems to me the most accessible and the most effective ...

in any case thank you, keep giving me your opinion, it is of great help to me.

[dirk pitt]

I believe to smell, although it was not raised by the other responses to soulinscraps that our friend wants to drive the alternator (s) with the electric motor in the sweet hope that it will increase the range or the power (or both) by partially recharging the batteries while driving.
I think I'm going to add my powerpoint to the legend of the EV which is recharged while driving.