Pre-heating engine

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Groar
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Pre-heating engine




by Groar » 03/11/08, 09:11

Hello,

I am a little interested in ecology and often during researches on Internet, I could find infos here :) On several occasions I told myself that I was going to register here ...

Today I am looking for an info and not being able to find it I told myself that some of them might have the info ...

The subject that is most important to me today is to minimize my fuel consumption. Since the temperatures have dropped, I have great difficulty keeping my good consumption this summer :(

On several North American sites are described systems making it possible to preheat the engine, this making it possible to minimize the overconsumption of cold.

The system is electric. We plug it into the sector 1 to 2 hours before using his car. The engine then reaches its cruising temperature 2 to 3 times faster than without preheating.

After several attempts to search on French-speaking sites I found nothing :(

Have you ever seen such a system?

Thank you in advance,

Denis
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by Former Oceano » 03/11/08, 20:25

Personally, I only saw this while traveling in Canada. In France, whether in Lorraine (where I spent my childhood and where I go back every winter) or in Alsace I have seen nothing like it.

Our engines are very compact, it should be quite complex to insert a resistor in the oil pan to heat the engine. Perhaps we could work with the water circuit, adding an electric water pump to circulate the coolant which would be used here as heating liquid ...
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by chatelot16 » 03/11/08, 20:48

I see this system for emergency generator sets maintained at the right temperature 24 hours a day to be able to start instantly at full power: the goal is really not the economy


I do not believe that an electric preheating makes a big saving of gasoline: in cold countries the goal and especially to start more easily, and to be warm in the car
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by Flytox » 03/11/08, 21:21

On chai plus what Saab or Volvo "nordic" car, there is a system to help the engine start and get warmer quickly. It is a kind of small, flat resistor which is electrically heated and which is located in the intake duct.

It is opposite the single-point injector and intercepts the fuel jet to heat it up. A larger part of the gasoline is transformed into gas instead of flowing in the conduits and this is supposed to give a much better start and reduce the need for richness during the heating.
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Groar
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by Groar » 04/11/08, 10:41

Thank you for your answers. This is what I feared: we are not in a climate cold enough to have this kind of accessory.

On another site, a person has taken a series of parameters on each trip for more than a year, including water temperature, outdoor temperature and consumption. There is a clear relationship: the greater the temperature difference, the higher the consumption:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/starting-get-cold-5767.html#post69865
Since he does not live in a cold region in winter (Texas), he does not have such a system, but his data still show a significant impact.
Note: 55mpg = 4.3l / 100 - 75mpg = 3.1l / 100

It is clear that the engine overconsumes when it is cold. If we can preheat it then it will reach the right temperature faster and therefore it will consume less. When some people test to see the impact of a modification, they first do 22 to 25 miles (35 to 40 km) to heat the car: engine and transmission.

My daily route is 30 km one way, including the first 5 in town. I note my consumption on each trip and I make daily sums. On my full previous I made 4.76l / 100. On my current full I only did 2 days below this average and the current average is 5.08l / 100.

I have already blocked the low grille of the car and still note a shorter heating time, without any overheating :) Maybe by blocking the one above as well, even if it's really small on a stage, it will improve things. Finally I really have to build myself skirts for the rear wheels, it will improve aerodynamics and therefore consumption :)

Denis
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ecodriver and ecomodder:
megane 1.9 dT 1997: 3.8 L / 100 instead of 6.7
scenic 1.9 dCi 2001: 4.9 L / 100 instead of 5.9
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Groar
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by Groar » 04/11/08, 10:45

former oceanic wrote:Perhaps we could work with the water circuit, adding an electric water pump to circulate the coolant which would be used here as heating liquid ...


This is something that is done on the prius: at the end of a journey, a certain quantity of coolant is put in a thermos and is used as engine heating fluid at the next start.

Denis
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ecodriver and ecomodder:

megane 1.9 dT 1997: 3.8 L / 100 instead of 6.7

scenic 1.9 dCi 2001: 4.9 L / 100 instead of 5.9
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by chatelot16 » 04/11/08, 12:55

if you really want to look for the latest savings, put in your garage a socket on the central heating: when the car comes back warm there is 10 liter of water at almost 100 ° to recover and put in the heating of the house

conversely at cold start, it suffices to fill the cooling circuit with water from the central heating ...

to better put a water tank in the car, it will be like cogeneration: part of the waste heat from the engine will be recovered to heat the house, but be careful that the weight of the tank does not produce a loss greater than profit
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by jonule » 04/11/08, 14:09

Hello,
yes recovering the energy of a car during a journey can prove to be interesting, as much the electricity of the battery as the hot water of the cooling circuit;
for the cooling circuit, it is necessary to take in parallel on which circuit? the passenger compartment heating circuit? it is the one that heats the most usual, well the fastest, but once the engine is off? the same I think.
also: are there 3-way valves (like T) with quick coupling?
do you know that?
you also need an electric circulator ... or thermosiphon?
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by Other » 05/11/08, 06:01

Hello


On several North American sites are described systems making it possible to preheat the engine, this making it possible to minimize the overconsumption of cold.

The system is electric. We plug it into the sector 1 to 2 hours before using his car. The engine then reaches its cruising temperature 2 to 3 times faster than without pre-heating


Most cars have this heating element, it comes automatically on the Gulf WV, Jetta, Mercedes ect .. it is optional to purchase for certain manufacturer, it is a small element of 450watt that we put instead of a sanding disc, in the cylinder head it has an O-ring and a tightening screw,
We plug in the cars in the evening and a timer around 4 o'clock puts it in action, a few hours before leaving for work
some leave it all night if it's -20 it's not likely to go up very high

The main advantage is easy to start, then if the journey is short you have cabin heating faster, some installs a small electric heater of 500w forced air in the car to warm the seats and the passenger compartment.

Saving fuel can be if you do 10km trips with long stops, but in winter in the cold it consumes more, it goes from 50% to double if the routes are very short

This item is available in most automotive stores (see the CANADIAN TIRE catalog)
Heater engine block it has models that you put in series on a casing hose
But you will have a hard time finding a 220volts element most are made for the North American market 110 volts

Made like son on are Jetta diesel he put two elements of 450watts you have to connect them in series for 220volts
Contrary to what one might think it is better to have a 1000 watts and heat just one hour than 500watts and heat 3 hours, the only catch the catch of running outside is limited to 15 amperes so if you add a heater of 500 watts in the cabin is a bit limited.

Andre
Last edited by Other the 06 / 11 / 08, 05: 15, 1 edited once.
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Groar
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by Groar » 05/11/08, 22:54

Thank you for your answers :)

If our cars slept in the garage then the drop in temperatures would be less impactful. With temperatures between 15 and 5 ° C in the morning, I consume 20% more :(

I plugged the top grid the day before yesterday after plugging the bottom grid (except for the turbo section). I have consumed only 12% more these last two mornings, but to be confirmed. Since it was raining a lot this morning, this is encouraging :)

As for the engine block heater, I will question my mechanic during my next maintenance (in 1000kms IIRC). As I live in Toulouse, I don't know if it would be really "profitable" economically and / or ecologically.

I will see if there is no overheating problem with my top & bottom grid locks, and concentrate on other aerodynamic modifications ... to be continued :) in another thread;)

Denis
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ecodriver and ecomodder:

megane 1.9 dT 1997: 3.8 L / 100 instead of 6.7

scenic 1.9 dCi 2001: 4.9 L / 100 instead of 5.9

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