Water / steam injection in an engine?

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
jonule
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Water / steam injection in an engine?




by jonule » 12/09/05, 10:52

I remind you that there is a small section of the site dedicated to the injection of water into the engines and it begins with a press review:

Water injection in engines: press review
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Other
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by Other » 12/09/05, 16:54

hello answer to Jonule et econologie

I find you acerbic this morning

I do not quite understand the criticism of the other forum which is different from this one, it deals with the same pantone subject, but in a more Gender reference classification, while here it is a debate of ideas.
For a new one who wants to make a panton it is easier for him to delve into these references,
At first I tried to send photos on this site I got discouraged quite quickly. Very often I have old texts written by hand and I don't want to spend time rewriting this and measuring my language in good French to put it on the forum. the host of this forum does the layouts and makes the texts easier in your language, French from France, as we say in Quebec. So I think he's doing his part of the job.
I also understand that if we multiply the forums we are going to scatter.
If I'm on forums it's to exchange my ideas and experiences, but also to learn what others have done. More particularly on the panton process, when I realize that this kind of exercise does not bring me anything constructive, I will put more time in the experiments, rather than on the keyboard.

Andre
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by Rabbit » 18/11/05, 00:59

I do not know where to put it but it remains on the subject.

1 or 2 months ago I started to put the engine of my car
on a drip by injecting him with water.
The water is contained in a jar and is sucked out by the depression of the
motor at the hose that drives the brake servo.
a tap (aquatium) limits the water flow (maximum)
and another total aspiration.
An air intake is practiced before arrival at the hose for
can imitate the depression created by the engine this depression
is regulated by this air intake which is coupled to the fuel butterfly.
depression is proportional to the opening of the butterfly.
the conduits are made of flexible aquarium tubing.
The car: an R19 phase 2 fuel at lpg and dating from 96.
It is a 1400cc. Not really a camel because without the water
it consumes 10 to 13 l of LPG per 100 km. it depends if it
there is a trailer behind or not. With a full trailer it is the
nightmare, I go to 18 - 20 liters. must say that I am in the
ardennes and that the country is not really flat.
With water my consumption went to 8-9 liters without trailer
and has 11 liters with.
Question power, I have not noticed anything except that it is necessary
push the accelerator less. but if we are relentless on the
champignion does not change anything.
I "dope" my engine with 1 liter of water per 100 km, speed of
driving on the highway 120 km / h constant. Except when it goes up
trop : Lol:

It was just to say that it was possible and possible that there is room for improvement. I'll put a few pictures tomorrow, if it's not raining ... : roll:
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by Cuicui » 18/11/05, 15:22

Hi Rabbit
Interesting your experiment. Is it a gasoline engine? Do you have a system (carburetor or bubbler) to vaporize the water before injecting it?
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by Other » 18/11/05, 18:32

Hello Rabbit
I asked myself the same question as you at the beginning of my experience on diesel when I had put too much water in the panton reactor the outlet was cold between 60c and 80C and yet I noticed a saving.
Andébut as I don't have an intercooler after the turbo I thought it helped cool the air after the turbo
it is for these reasons that I also lower the outlet temperature of the reactor, and I have doubts to know that it is steam that the engine must swallow, I think that it is very fine drops hot water charged with static by friction on the rod,
hitting the hot reactor the drops are torn even smaller and electrified by splitting
(it's just my opinion check it out another story)
Andre
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by Rabbit » 18/11/05, 22:09

What I would like to try is a direct injection of water
under high pressure and at 200 ° C in the cylinders just after ignition.
With an injector controlled by electromagnet for example
common kind rail. the high ignition voltage will serve
after passing a coil (to have 12 v) would be used to briefly activate the injector.
But i don't really know what injector issue exists
this remains at the vague project stage.
Have a friend who works at Bosh, I will ask him the question
on occasion. He's used to my funny ideas.
:P
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by MobyleX » 19/11/05, 00:18

Rabbit wrote:What I would like to try is a direct injection of water
under high pressure and at 200 ° C in the cylinders just after ignition.
With an injector controlled by electromagnet for example
common kind rail. the high ignition voltage will serve
after passing a coil (to have 12 v) would be used to briefly activate the injector.
But i don't really know what injector issue exists
this remains at the vague project stage.
Have a friend who works at Bosh, I will ask him the question
on occasion. He's used to my funny ideas.
:P


Well, this is exactly the direct water injection that I want to experience !! It would allow an injection of water with instantaneous vaporization of the liquid in the combustion chamber and thus increase of the internal pressure in the cylinder (recovery of the calorific energy usually dissipated in the exhaust). We could thus considerably increase the thermal efficiency of an engine: all (or almost) the calorific energy resulting from the combustion of the fuel would then be transmitted in pure mechanical energy during the absorption of energy not the drops of water injected (and therefore during the vaporization of water). in short, by cons I can not test.
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by Other » 19/11/05, 00:46

Hello,
For DIY enthusiasts you have great ambitions
The solution and attractive but even an autombile manufacturer would have problems to achieve this kind of injection
this means direct injection into the combustion chamber
high pressure water very heated so a good injectors water pump like a stainless steel diesel with a ceramic nozzle (because stainless steel is not hard enough to resist the rolling of the Liquid, so very complex for a diesel engine
a little less a petrol engine, although the order could be given from the low voltage ignition signal and given the injector delay this will happen at the right time,
Again there is a question of dosage,
the more I experiment in water doping the more I realize that it takes very little water for it to be effective, as soon as we increase the quantity especially petrol engine it degrades, and in addition to the dosage there is the temperature which influences that is a lot of parameters to verify,
Andre
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by Rabbit » 19/11/05, 17:16

For temperature, calories would be taken from the
manifold. manifold which will supply pressure by the same
opportunity .
just need to find a small hydraulic pump (accepting water)
to refuel.
but this already exists in hydraulics. 180 - 200 bars in hydraulics
It's usual.
Will have to run at 12 V, with a low flow. Only
standard. so the water supply rating is good.
The real prob is the injectors. And some tech data like
the pressure of the cylinder between the ignition and the evacuation of the gases.
the temperature of the cylinder during this cycle. Volume
steam depends on temperature and pressure.
Finally little things like that. : roll:
HV voltage coil issue, this is not missing from the
breakages.
The thing seems achievable to me. Even for a handyman.

About the industry, Engineers are rarely
references question DIY. And as the industry
relies on these people ....
The difference between DIYers and manufacturers is
means and tools. If we had to wait for them to go out
caves we would still be there.
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by Rabbit » 19/11/05, 19:13

oops

: roll:
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