Water doping for audi A6 2.5l V6 TDi

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
fag69
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 6
Registration: 06/03/12, 15:13

Water doping for audi A6 2.5l V6 TDi




by fag69 » 07/03/12, 12:21

Hello everybody

I will certainly discuss topics and ask questions already asked. I went through several posts on the forum (as well as on other site) and I would like to deepen the thing before starting.
Only official information is not legion. (If not the veritas report on the Ecopra system).

Already between the pro "Gillier Pantone" and the pro "HHO", each seems to be defending his end of fat.

Then for each of these systems it is difficult to have figures depending on the vehicle.
Is it not possible for the site to create a table where each real case is summarized? (vhl with description engine year, system used, conso before, conso after, pollution before and after ...)

My vehicle is an 6 A1998 audi that has 260 000 + Km. I tinker a little but I feel not to dismount especially if I'm not sure to have a result.
Has anyone ever mounted a system on this vehicle?

I will mount a kit all but some are too expensive (almost impossible to depreciate). For the less honorable we do not really know their efficiency.
Not enough feedback from users of this kind of kit. A summary table would have come for people like me who hesitates.

I would like to see a car running at either Gillier Pantone or HHO.
I am close to Lyon so if anyone has one of these systems I am ready to make contact and see the system in real life.

Here I am interested in any information that can help me decide.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 07/03/12, 12:33

Hello,

When you change your car, mobile phone or TV while they're still working, you'll never pay off again, you know ...

It would be nice to start thinking the same way about the environment ... especially since there is a long-term cost that we will all pay ... if it is not we will be our children .. .

Now I understand that some kits are sold a bit expensive for what it is (and unsecured results) ...

So concretely I advise you to look at the advice we gave a few days ago here to a new member in your case: https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-a-l ... 11568.html
0 x
User avatar
I Citro
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5129
Registration: 08/03/06, 13:26
Location: Bordeaux
x 11




by I Citro » 07/03/12, 14:55

I do not want to demoralize you too much, but equipping a 4 PSA cylinder on an 405 is not easy ...
So want to embark on a V-shaped engine (2 cylinder banks), with delicate accessibility, ubiquitous electronics, availability of used parts in non-existent cases and a high cost of supply for parts that are likely to break ...

In short, all this for unknown and perhaps negative results ...

Finally, what use do you envisage of this vehicle ?:
- Daily?
- Mixed use road / city?
- Small or long trips?
- Annual mileage ("amortization of the investment")?

I drove in A6 1.9L TDI and owned an A4 TDI ... these are not cars I would choose for this kind of experience.

I had planned to do it on a Safrane 4 LPG cylinder (there was room as it is planned for a V6), I ended up giving up while I had an engine and exhaust plus ...
0 x
fag69
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 6
Registration: 06/03/12, 15:13




by fag69 » 07/03/12, 16:56

Thank you for these initial responses.

Christophe if I ask myself the question of whether or not a pantone is precisely because I do not want to change car. I bought her she had 200 000km and she must still be able to do a lot.
about the price of kits, the econokit is reasonable but what bothers me is not to have more results released. So I have the right to ask myself about their effectiveness.
If some readers of this post on a kit (econokit or other) please pass numbers.

a question: I think a kit is reusable on another vehicle once the latter out of use. No ?

Citro about the place in the engine it is true that it is not terrible and it is to study because under the big cache that is on the engine there is a lot of room. In addition kits do not look huge.
That's why I would like to see a real installation.

On the other hand you tell me about parts likely to break, so there is a risk?

The use of my vehicle: Daily + holidays. Not or very little city. Peri-urban use for small and long journey. Annual mileage 25 to 30 000 km.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 07/03/12, 17:14

As we said in the other subject (which I advised you to read): autoconstruction or kit is the same!

If you know (well) tinkering then you can do self build ... otherwise better to build a kit that will ask you already a few hours of work settings.

In 2 cases consumption results are not guaranteed and this requires adjustment on a case by case basis!

However, you will smoke less and increase the life of your engine (and engine oil) by a permanent scrub!


You can look at the econokit topic too: https://www.econologie.com/forums/econokit-e ... 10796.html (and especially the internal links)

It is on a mountain holiday that you will see the biggest difference in consumption ...
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 07/03/12, 18:55

Hello fag69

Then for each of these systems it is difficult to have figures depending on the vehicle.
Is it not possible for the site to create a table where each real case is summarized? (vhl with description engine year, system used, conso before, conso after, pollution before and after ...)


The summary table is the dream of many people ..... the problem is that there are few testers, that they do not communicate all their results in a "complete" or credible way. and in total, very few vehicles have been Gillier Pantonned and documented on the WEB. : Cry:

It is necessary to fill in the table, to document it in a credible way, to give a minimum of construction details, measurements of performance records ..... it is a lot of work in addition to the development herself. The participants are already nice to give information .... parcellaires .... from there to what is really usable for a beginner ... there is a big step! : Mrgreen:

Compared to the pollution before / after installation, I have not yet done the test in conditions "comparable" to the pollution bench, on the other hand there is an easily visible effect. At night, you lower your rearview mirror to see the back of your vehicle. When a car follows you with the headlights it shows you your wake, without Gillier Pantone at each acceleration you see what comes out of the pot, it smokes copiously, with the Gillier Pantone you see nothing! and this even if the setting of your GIllier Pantone is not tip top for fuel savings. :P
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
fag69
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 6
Registration: 06/03/12, 15:13




by fag69 » 08/03/12, 19:23

citro wrote:..., an availability of second-hand parts in non-existent breakage and a high cost of supply for parts which are susceptible to break ... "

...


Is there a risk of breakage after citro?

Flytox I am aware that it must not be easy but you have to start one day.
Without assurance of result I do not intend to cut my pot.
That's why a kit may be a good way to start.

I saw that in other post you said that the reactor had to heat well. At Econokit they advise to put it in contact with the Turbo or the exhaust pipe. The turbo must be more efficient I think no? Maybe the temperature is not constant enough? Have any of you ever done this on their system?
can he get out of the reactor water? I ask this because they also say to put the diffuser before the turbo (so at the same height) and water in the turbo I'm not sure it's good.

Thank you for your answers
0 x
alaniesse
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 214
Registration: 19/03/11, 10:47
x 2




by alaniesse » 08/03/12, 20:45

The easiest way is to do it yourself.
The econokit is very small.
For depollution, yes. like any mist admission
For the economy .... a very flexible behavior will do the same thing.
The simplest: electric fogger 3 heads with reverse osmosis water, in plastic box with capacity 3 liters. (find place in engine compartment)
silicone pipes in 12 mm, u made of copper to be held by 2 stainless steel collars just after the collector, stainless steel venturi tube to put it after the air filter.

Addition of 2 intercallary stainless steel (spacer spacer) to roll back lambda probes.
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 08/03/12, 21:34

fag69 wrote:
citro wrote:..., an availability of second-hand parts in non-existent breakage and a high cost of supply for parts which are susceptible to break ... "
...


Is there a risk of breakage after citro?


A bad assembly can send a sip of water at once in the admission. There is a risk (the water is not compressible) so we can pellet cylinder crankshaft ....
A good assembly does not have low points and unnecessary cavity likely to be filled with condensation water for example that could be emptied / move suddenly after a big braking acceleration or big slope ....: Mrgreen:

Aside from these design problems, it's the opposite, the Gillier Pantone cleans / decalaminates the high engine / pistons / segments / cylinder head / valves. It is a guarantee of longevity.

I saw that in other post you said that the reactor had to heat well. At Econokit they advise to put it in contact with the Turbo or the exhaust pipe.

In contact with the turbo, I'm not sure it's a good idea to impose additional temperature variations for reliability ... There are several schools for the location of the reactor before or after the turbo or far on the line exhaust.
- Before the turbo has to disrupt its operation, AMHA there is much more to lose than to win.
- Just after the turbo to take full advantage of the residual temperature seems to me the best compromise.
- Far on the exhaust line, I saw nothing documented that I thought was serious.
- Reactor in the exhaust = almost instantaneous response and maximum heating. (best solution ?)
- Reactor against the exhaust outside, delayed response and anemic, for my part I have not managed to make it work.

can he get out of the reactor water? I ask this because they also say to put the diffuser before the turbo (so at the same height) and water in the turbo I'm not sure it's good.

Yes, water can come out of the reactor, especially in the starting phase of the cold engine. There is often condensation water in the bottom of the reactor and the first acceleration after start-up it can go up more or less violently until the exit of the reactor (and more if affinity : Mrgreen: ).

We see this by monitoring the reactor output temperature, it is very low during 200 or 300 meters (kind 20 °) then rises suddenly at 80 ° for example during 2 seconds then drops to 20 ° and then rises gradually. My explanation (to be confirmed), a steam buffer is created at the base of the reactor and relaxes by expelling violently water that wets the reactor rod space.

For the diffuser, actually it must be put at the entrance of the turbo. It must be able to eat a few drops (without exaggerations of course), it is much easier in this place in depression than after the turbo or it must be done with the pressure and pressuriser with big variations etc ..... .... : Cry: : Mrgreen:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
fag69
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 6
Registration: 06/03/12, 15:13




by fag69 » 09/03/12, 11:47

alaniesse wrote:...
The simplest: electric fogger 3 heads with reverse osmosis water, in plastic box with capacity 3 liters. (find place in engine compartment)
silicone pipes in 12 mm, u made of copper to be held by 2 stainless steel collars just after the collector, stainless steel venturi tube to put it after the air filter.

Addition of 2 intercallary stainless steel (spacer spacer) to roll back lambda probes.


Hi alaniesse,
I had seen in a job someone (maybe you) who was talking about a system like that. Do you have a diagram or photos of your system?
For the lambda probe there is none on the diesels it seems to me no?
This solution seems (as you explain) quite simple realization, can you tell me more STP?

Flytox if I follow your reasoning on the history of the low point. I have every interest to put the reactor much lower than the diffuser (exhaust pipe) so that the water can rise.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Special motors, patents, fuel consumption reduction"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 187 guests