ESIEE project on water doping Gillier Pantone

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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ESIEE project on water doping Gillier Pantone




by Christophe » 18/02/10, 11:38

Three students of the ESIEE I1T studied water doping / pantone engine. They surely passed on econology anonymously or not, I remember more.

Anyway, I find their site interesting in explanations (the approach is different from the classic approaches) of which here are the most relevant extracts:

A) The actors (we are part of it): http://crbatiment.fr/controverse/acteur.html

As you can see, the cartography is centered on the fuel for a better comparison with water and gasoline or other.

Image

For the scale with the position of the actors, they must be taken into account with water as fuel.

Users:

We find among the actors for, the users. The use of water in the engines would make it possible to buy less gasoline and that would be cheaper for the user. In addition, the population could travel more without polluting more.

It can now be said that automobile pollution is partly responsible for global warming. Consequently, the use of such an engine would significantly reduce CO2 production.

So the use of such a system has two positive sides for users, they will spend less money on gasoline and pollute less.

Associations / environmentalists:

Environmentalists and associations are actors favorable to this system because it would significantly reduce fuel consumption and therefore the release of CO2.

In a way, this engine would be the invention of the century, and part of the carbon dioxide problems would be re-absorbed.

The insurance:

Insurance is one of the main players because it is they who insure our vehicles and who allow users to use them.

However, they do not speak out due to the lack of scientific studies or serious tests carried out and validated by the Government.

They have no references on which to rely and therefore do not give their opinion.

The government:

We will focus on the consequences of the establishment of such a system for the Government. It would be a colossal loss of money because the consumption of gasoline would decrease very strongly while knowing that the state touches the VAT as well as the TIPP internal tax on petroleum products above.

In addition, the Government should modify all the structures for the establishment of the system.

Therefore, the Government does not speak out because they do not want to promote such an idea. So the Government is one of the actors against.

The oil groups:

Another very important player who does not wish to see such a system appear on the market is the oil lobbies. They are the ones who exert the most pressure because it would be a whole market that would drop sharply. All the OPEC countries would lose a lot of money because some of these countries are only selling oil.

Certain OPEC countries have already invested in renewable energies such as solar, wind ...

There are rumors that the oil companies are buying the patents to stifle this invention.

He is one of the most virulent actors against.

Car manufacturers:

Another player against are the automakers. Indeed, they do not have as the assurances of scientific studies carried out which would affirm that the engine functions. In addition, automobile groups have already invested huge sums of money in various alternative gasoline systems such as hydrogen or electricity.

They would have to invest again in this system when no study proves its effectiveness because the reaction will be contrary to the principle of energy conservation In addition, the implementation of the system would be very difficult because there would be difficulties in industrializing its manufacture.

Therefore, the builders are shy and do nothing.



B) The reverse: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... jn64uM.pdf

Extract:

In this controversy we will try to unravel the mystery:

"Why doesn't the efficient yet achievable water engine break through in our means of transport?"

The current situation is ideal for launching such a project because we are at a turning point in the automotive world, and more precisely in the choice of a next fuel.

The car manufacturers are preparing for this change and are betting on a technology in its research. However, none of these large groups rely on the water engine, which however can prove its reliability, as proven by part of the automobile fleet of the town hall of Vitry sur Orne, which has been operating without problems since 2007.


Their site: http://moteur-a-eau.new.fr/
Last edited by Christophe the 18 / 02 / 10, 14: 30, 3 edited once.
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by Remundo » 18/02/10, 11:56

Hi Christopher,

L'ESIEE is an engineering school ... oriented communication / internet

We do not do TPE (supervised personal work at high school level) or TIPE (supervised personal initiative work at CPGE level). But "study projects"

But their approach looks nice : Idea:
Last edited by Remundo the 18 / 02 / 10, 12: 03, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 18/02/10, 11:59

Ah thanks for the info I made the changes accordingly.
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by I Citro » 18/02/10, 14:26

Remundo wrote:L'ESIEE is an engineering school ... oriented communication / internet
We do not do TPE (supervised personal work at high school level) or TIPE (supervised personal initiative work at CPGE level). But "study projects"

But their approach looks nice : Idea:
I do NOT share your opinion at all my dear Remundo. :?
This way of seeing things is completely formatted by the distorted information conveyed here and there by the traditional media and the Internet and no analysis or synthesis has been made to separate the "wheat from the chaff".
: Evil:
In addition, it is very badly written, I pass on the spelling ... but the ideas are "in bulk" and very questionable ...

Among the statements that make my hair stand on end:
the population could travel more without polluting more.

It can now be said that automobile pollution is partly responsible for global warming.
Consequently, the use of such an engine would significantly reduce CO2 production
It's a misconception, not a premise ...
In a way, this engine would be the invention of the century, and part of the carbon dioxide problems would be re-absorbed.
: Shock:
All the OPEC countries would lose a lot of money because some of these countries are only selling oil.

Certain OPEC countries have already invested in renewable energies such as solar, wind ...
2 sentences that contradict each other ... : Shock:

In summary, it's a cloth, my 7 year old daughter reasons better and expresses herself better. :?
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by Remundo » 18/02/10, 14:30

yes, they are engineering students ... in communication : Cheesy:

They did their best because they know very little about the technique. What they say is questionable, but not fundamentally wrong.

And then do you know that these projects are only there to "validate a unit of value"? That they only devote a few dozen hours to it?

After this report, they will move to another, for another unit of value ...

I have already written it, the first skill of the engineer pupil is word and powerpoint. :P

and sometimes to wear a tie well at the time of the "defense"
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by Christophe » 18/02/10, 14:33

Completely Remundo ... and in communication ... there is indication : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

Citro I find you very aggressive lately ... cf https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-et ... 3-170.html

I said that the approach was "interesting" not that I was 100% in agreement with them ... yes their analysis is very light but it has the merit of existing and of talking about doping ... d 'elsewhere you could do the same analysis with electric propulsion!
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by elephant » 18/02/10, 15:48

Comment:

oil tankers against: we understand: this is their sandwich

more:

states: don't worry about them: they will find another way of taxing (black box type, cost per kilometer). Besides, in their hearts, everyone agrees that the road network at a cost that will have to be borne well.
Same thing for heating: imagine that everyone is encouraged to reduce their heating bill by 30 to 80 percent: it will quickly be necessary to establish a building cadastre to tax by compensating for the shortfall!
The Belgian State does have an "excise compensatory tax" which compensates via the annual road tax for the taxes that the user does not pay when running on diesel.
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by sherkanner » 18/02/10, 16:13

Well, since I come from this school, I will provide some details. The ESIEE represents both the premises and the engineering school that resides there.

The I1T are in the first year of the Technologist cycle (bac + 3) and not an engineer (even if they can branch off there after 3 years), so they are part of ESTE and not ESIEE
Note, the engineers might not have done better.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technologue
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESTE
They come from technical bins (STI, ...), and not general (S).

For the communication aspect, we will come back, eh, that is not the main goal of the school either, even if part of the training is devoted to it. This is the aim of the ISTM (M for management), also present on the premises.

So basically in the keyboard (ESIEE looks like a keyboard), there is ESTE, school of technologist, ISTM, school of management, and ESIEE, school of engineering which represents the main staff present in buildings.


Then, this first year project and to give the opportunity to the new ones to create a "PRESENTATION" of a "CONTROVERSY", here they chose water doping.
They must create a poster, and make a presentation in front of their classmates.

Now, like many early years (engineers and technologists), the subject is not treated thoroughly, or even properly. But they learned a lot by doing this, and they normally had a fairly complete feedback from all the teachers of the school because on the one hand they are followed and guided throughout the project and then the presentation is displayed along the walls.

It is a group work of 3 to 6 people over one or two months, with other projects to do in parallel. The main goal is to teach them to work in a group, to work on their communication, to learn how to share tasks, and to bring out a presentation clear enough so that everyone can understand (the teachers / researchers as well as the language teachers than all students).

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate ^^

Okay, I'm going to introduce myself
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by Christophe » 18/02/10, 16:29

Ok thank you for the details concerning this project (I saw nothing on their small site).

I see that the day before on information and communication at ESIEE works well :) (you must have come across this subject via google right?)

You know, personally I don't have the impression that I was doing more successful projects in the 3rd year than in the 1st year of the engineering cycle ...

But obviously when you spend 10 times more time on a project it is more substantial ... but not necessarily of better quality.

What do we do as a type of job when we leave ESIEE?
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by sherkanner » 18/02/10, 16:44

In fact I consult this forum for about 3 years, I like the atmosphere and the info that we often find there of quality, and the rarely sterile discussions as I sometimes see a lot.

For the work we do when leaving school, it's quite varied, but not 50% do a job related to their training, many do management or sales training above. Others start their own business (few). I am one of the few who went to R&D after my training.

For the projects, mine were more successful in 3-4th year than in the first year.

I forgot to specify, the I1 / I1T are in the first year AFTER the baccalaureate, so youngsters of 18 years old. It puts into perspective the work that has been accomplished in this presentation.
The ESIEE is a post-bas school in 5 years, with an integrated prep cycle.
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