Questions and comments on the water doping

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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PITMIX
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Questions and comments on the water doping




by PITMIX » 22/05/08, 10:28

Hello friends

I create here a new topic to ask questions or make simple and concrete remarks about water doping, in any form whatsoever. Doping with water, steam, Pantone ... Hoping not to duplicate with another subject (Thank you Christophe for your help if it is the case : Mrgreen: )

I have a small purely mechanical question:
Can fuel consumption increase if the breather pipe of an engine is punctured?
I ask this because I made a trip of 900km during which I traveled 750km with 69l of gasoil (9,2l / 100km) the tube breather was broken.
After repair on the return trip the vehicle consumed 72L for 947km (7,6L / 100km) My consuite was similar to the return trip between 140 and 150km / h with smooth acceleration.

This immediately reminded me of what Andre was saying.
"The breather brings a certain amount of moisture ..."
Maybe it acts like a water doping ?? !!

Another note: My uncle has a Renault Espace 2 TD 2,1L and it makes the consumption record at each fill. He noticed that his car consumes less when on vacation at the seaside.
What do you think ?
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/05/08, 15:07

I thought that in vaccinations we consume less :D and more seriously that humid air can "help" reduce unburnt and therefore improve consumption

For the reniflar, no opinion; if it is not knowing where it is placed, because if the fact of unplugging acts on the vacuum sensor, the conso will be all affected
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by PITMIX » 22/05/08, 17:00

Hi Capt_Maloche

Me on vacation JE consumes more, and it's not just water lol : Cheesy:
No, but without laughing !! it seems to me that Zac made a similar remark.
He said that at altitude in Reunion the air becomes very humid and he no longer needs to supply the reactor with water.
Where my uncle goes on holiday, the humidity of the air regularly reaches 98% for temperatures of the order of 25 ° C to 30 ° C.

On my car the breather is connected to the intake tube between the mass air flow and the throttle body. It seems that there is an air temperature sensor as well.
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/05/08, 17:27

Yeah, in principle it's mostly Ricard that goes down in vaccinations :D

So, if I understand correctly, the unplugged breather does not affect your vacuum sensor? so do not have to affect your consumption
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"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by Flytox » 22/05/08, 21:02

Hello Pitmix

On my R19, I modified the return of the oil vapors to the intake resonator quite a bit by mixing the original pipes from R19 and Mégane. I work with 1 original "decanter" on the engine crankcase and a second Mégane decanter as standard. (The latter is used alone on the Mégane).

No visible change in fuel consumption and oil.

Then with the current fixture with a restriction on admission, I moved the final pipe spitting this blow before the restriction (before the intake resonator). The pressure in the crankcase has increased at least in some rpm configuration and the oil filler plug is gently kicking.

No visible change in fuel consumption and oil.

Finally, in the sense of decreasing the pressure output recycling oil vapors, I did not try. : Mrgreen:

For the fuel consumption which decreases when the temperature increases with the temperature (winter / summer) it is of the order of 5% on the R19 (when driving slowly). There may be "thermal" reasons or relative humidity of the sucked air etc ... which act directly on the efficiency of the motor, but there is also a mechanical reason, when the temperature increases the density of the air. The air decreases and the power absorbed by the aerodynamic drag of the car decreases. It is of the order of 15% for a temperature variation of 40 °. (already put this link a few months ago ...: Mrgreen:)

http://sportech.online.fr/sptc_idx.php? ... r_esy.html

A+
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by PITMIX » 23/05/08, 09:07

Hello
Indeed I had never noticed such a significant difference in consumption during my previous modifications on the Golf Diesel and the R5 gasoline.
I had made comparatively strange breather connections. Mixing of water vapor with oil vapor, passage of oil vapor in the reactor, by-pass of the oil vapors at a slowing down ...
It is possible that it is the electronics which is influenced in this case.
This leads to other questions:
How to connect doping to water without influencing the electronics?
It would be necessary to have a computer to connect to the diagnostic socket of the computer, to control all this.
Maybe by connecting the doping to the water downstream of the mass air flow, the calculator would take into account everything that enters the engine ??
Ps: I am asking questions about my car but I invite you to ask other questions about other montages ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 23/05/08, 09:45

The flowmeter is a hot wire sensor that measures a speed installed on a known section, the calculator calculates the flow as a function of a known fluid: the air

if you change the characteristics of the fluid (the air in this case), you will necessarily false the reading of the real flow
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OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by martien007 » 23/05/08, 09:52

I ask this because I made a trip of 900km during which I traveled 750km with 69l of gasoil (9,2l / 100km) the tube breather was broken.
After repair on the return trip the vehicle consumed 72L for 947km (7,6L / 100km) My consuite was similar to the return trip between 140 and 150km / h with smooth acceleration.

Maybe in the going you had the headwind?

I remember having a problem on a R25 gasoline electronic injection (the 1ères - 1986-) because of the small pipe split: the mechanic had not found the cause (idle irregular then stalled at rest, and bad acceleration). I accidentally saw this slit, a piece of tape around the pipe and presto the problem.

I think that any breakthrough or cracked pipe (or loose necklace) can disturb the admission to the depression level and maybe modify the conso ?? may be?

140-150 .. you have too many points on your license? you can give me what you want!
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by jonule » 23/05/08, 10:28

Hello,
I had noticed once while descending to Morocco, near the beach in Spain the engine was hot boiling, the air was humid and dirty spray had to do that my car had incredibly + accelerations power recovery etc ... I remember having experienced it well ...

if not for the breather, it is supposed to re-pass through the air filter the volatile fumes of the fuel which passes through the still unsealed segmentations of the "cold" engine, during the first turns of starting (electric starter starting the engine): the fuel then falling on the engine oil, the heat of the engine oil heating it volatilizes and passes it back into the intake: if it is connected outside, fuel is lost! especially if the starter takes a while before starting the engine ...
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by PITMIX » 23/05/08, 17:02

hi Jonule
I do not have the same conception of the breather as you because the vapors do not iron through the air filter. I also think that the fuel and oil vapors are constantly present even hot engine. The breather is used to maintain the air pressure in the sump (in my opinion :? ).
I agree that a small portion of the fuel must volatilize instead of being recycled in the event that the breather tube is punctured.
I also had a lot of oil loss since my 266000km engine and segmentation must be worn out.
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