Blocking the development of water injection

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
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Blocking the development of water injection




by Christophe » 18/02/08, 11:44

I have just written a very small article evoking the blockage and the lack of interest for the water doping by the industrialists: https://www.econologie.com/industriels-e ... -3669.html

Here are its contents:

Why are not manufacturers more interested in doping with Giller-Pantone water?

The good practical results of an injection of water to a Gillier Pantone system are undeniable, as proof the assembly carried out at the City of Vitry. Why is this system not currently developed by industry?

Here are some ideas for reflection:

- They are interested but marketing is not yet planned

- Reproducibility or stability of results difficult to control

- Bad understanding of the system

- System in the public domain, difficult to patent

- NIH (Not Invented Here) view here

- Industrial or mental inertia

- Improved lifespan not profitable to engine vendors (who alone can afford to really develop the system)

- Applicable on old engines not favorable to the purchase of new engines


Your (relevant) arguments will be added to this article as you go.
Last edited by Christophe the 18 / 02 / 08, 15: 10, 1 edited once.
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by Remundo » 18/02/08, 12:16

Very interesting the films of "not invented here"

For "water doping" ... I think that the gains offered are not sufficient to counter industrial inertia and good little tax habits on fuel.

Be careful, I am not shouting "conspiracy of the oil tankers and the powerful". Simply, when you have a factory that produces an engine without the Gillier-Pantone system, and well to change your production line and amortize it, you really have to have a very strong technological leap in the system.

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by Pierre-Yves » 18/02/08, 13:43

I retain, for my part, in the list of Christophe, two related points. There is a misunderstanding of the system that makes it difficult to control the reproducibility or stability of results. When we see that, on two transformed tractors, one works and the other does not, there are reasonable questions. Although, to my knowledge, most installations work well, those that do not work play the role of the tree that hides the forest.

Another reason is that some speeches (which, personally, I find delusional ...) serve as a foil! I once attended a presentation almost mystical (I barely exaggerate), such that I wanted to leave the room after 5 minutes. I can easily imagine the reaction of a boss of the automotive industry in front of such presentations ...

Pantone's personality and its ambiguities also work against water doping. Those who oppose the process demagogically abuse this kind of "argument".

Finally (for this time!), The process is "too simple" !!! Put yourself in the shoes of an engineer who has worked for years on reducing pollution and consumption: if he invents an ultra-sophisticated (and ultra-expensive !!) system, his bosses will congratulate him. If he uses a system that the average handyman can install in his garage, he will be immediately expelled for incompetence !!!

I start an evaluation of doping with water. I specify that I am a design office and I will never sell kits, but I can recommend them in some applications. I will establish a specification for this evaluation and I will publish it on this forum, for everyone to give their opinion.
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by abyssin3 » 18/02/08, 14:15

I would especially remember these points there:
- NIH (Not Invented Here) see here
- Industrial or mental inertia
- Improved lifespan not profitable to engine vendors (who alone can afford to really develop the system)
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by Remundo » 18/02/08, 15:07

I agree with the point of view of Pierre Yves, and also Abyssin3 although I do not know if the extension of the life of the engine is actually demonstrated (corrosion ...)

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by Christophe » 18/02/08, 15:12

Thank you for paying attention to this post.

I am going to put a point on the simplicity in fact related to the fact that it is difficult patentable as well as a point on the dubious image that has the system.

Remundo, for the life time, an index is strongly in the direction of improvement: the engine oil clogs much less quickly and everyone has found this.
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by Christophe » 18/02/08, 15:22

Here I added the following 2 points:

- System too simple to interest the engineers (a doping resulted in equivalent or better results than the development of high pressure diesel injection whose development took more than 10 years and millions of engineering hours).

- Bad image of the system relayed by Pantone but also by certain "actors" (formation of certain very dubious "organic" groups).
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by Flytox » 19/02/08, 23:23

Bonjour Christophe

Christophe wrote:- Bad image of the system relayed by Pantone ...


Honestly, the general public totally ignores the word "Pantome" whether it's a type or an invention. Whenever I talked about it around me, no one knew. From there to saying that it is a foil for the automobile cartel, there is a step that I will not take. And then given the advertising budgets they have, they can create from scratch any brand image on any subject on an entire population. : Mrgreen:

The automobile is a technological image, which they prefer sophisticated and therefore expensive. There is more profit to be made than to sell cheap "basic".

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by Christophe » 20/02/08, 10:13

It was not in relation to the general public but to decision makers (responsible for BE for example): with the sulphurous reputation of pantone and many people who revolve around it, the name pantone alone blocks any "serious" initiative ...

But I think the most important reason is the difficulty of the reproducibility of the results ... and to understand must studies ... in short the classic vicious circle ...
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by Cuicui » 20/02/08, 10:22

Remundo wrote: when you have a plant that produces a motor without the Gillier-Pantone system, and to change your production line and dampen it, you really need the system to bring a very strong technological good.

The Gillier-Pantone system does not require any modification of the engine.
Almost all the system is exhaust, usually provided by subcontractors.
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