Tips for pantonizing a generator.

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Targol
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Tips for pantonizing a generator.




by Targol » 04/10/06, 19:50

Hello to you, great masters of the bubbler and the turbulator !!! :D

Following the micro-storm that took place yesterday morning over the southwest, my house remained without electricity for a good 30 hours.
I almost lost all the contents of my freezer which made me make the decision to buy a generator.

Now, even if it means buying this kind of gear, I tell myself that, since I know Pantone specialists through this site, it would not be bad to attempt (in the more or less long term) a Pantonization of the hello. After all, this is the occasion where never to put myself in the bath : Wink:

Hence my question: what type of generator set is better than I buy to facilitate pantonization?
  • petrol or diesel?
  • single or multi cylinder?
  • 2 stroke or 4 stroke?


Some of these questions are probably stupid (I don't even know if there are 2-stroke generator sets).

In short, if you could give me the "ideal group", even if it is purely theoretical, that would allow me to see, in what I find, and according to the prices, which is the best purchase to make in the optics of a future pantonization.

Thank you in advance.

PS: I don't know if I'm going to buy it new or second-hand, it will depend on the price and what I find. So do not hesitate to orient myself on old bousons that we can no longer find new ...
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by Former Oceano » 04/10/06, 20:36

If we remain in an ecological approach, already you avoid 2T even if we find cheaper 2T groups ...

Between gasoline and diesel, it would be more interesting, if you are willing to pay a little more, to choose a diesel, for several reasons:

1-Can walk at HPV. We don't inject fossil CO2 into the atmosphere.
2-The combustion engine has a better efficiency than the combustion engine.
3-It is easier to pantonize.

Here. There remains the problem of cost. I saw groups of 4,5KW diesel for 1000 €. It can even allow you to recycle oil and gain some energy independence.
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GREGNENE
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by GREGNENE » 04/10/06, 20:51

I too had the same idea 8)
and I wanted to know if it was possible to run a pantomized generator with vegetable oil and methane gas :?:
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by camel1 » 05/10/06, 00:02

GREGNENE wrote:I too had the same idea 8)
and I wanted to know if it was possible to run a pantomized generator with vegetable oil and methane gas :?:


Ouch!

Then in order:

Diesel is a priori what will best pantonize,
It can work with oil, on the other hand, for methane gas, it is necessary to start on a petrol model, with an adaptation, interesting solution in the case of a Jean Pain composting method.

We can find good opportunities, we must of course know the useful power that we need ...

The must (I'm thinking about it these days) is cogeneration, that is to say that the group's cooling system is coupled to the central heating of the house, the "free" heat goes into the house rather than heating small birds ... significantly improving the overall efficiency of fossil fuel combustion or recycled ...
In this case, the best is a water-cooled group.

You have to look on the internet (especially on the Quanthomme website), because there are already achievements on GE ...

A + + +
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by Other » 05/10/06, 02:28

Hello,
It depends above all on the need and the walking time
if it is just to repair once a year or lighting the chalet, the most economical (not ecological) it is a small silent honda and not greedy with petrol the purchase price is good
If it is for a more regular use long period
takes a single cylinder diesel the small ones are air cooled.
If for a big use is 24 hours in lines takes a diesel
multi cylinders 2 or 3, al, water is rather rare or it is an amateur construction or of large capacity difficult to find in an affordable way.

I just went there 15 days ago to repair a 3 cylinder diesel direct injection, the controller of the brushless generator was blown up and more parts available, I gave him a pass to activate it and make it work with a manual adjustment on 12 volts, we are not at 15 volts near in these cases.
I also installed a system so that the engine stops in the event of a lack of oil pressure and high engine temperature, we are not always near this noisy machine! this is the worst side of this machine, we should send the exhaust in a barrel of water!

Probably you will opt for a 10kw diesel single cylinder
they are still quite expensive in working condition, or you make a bargene like this one the guy more able to make it work it sold it!

With a diesel it will be relatively easy for you to run it on the 100% fried especially since you have AC current to heat your oil and control it well (you start all the same on diesel because a direct injection engine if you start even with hot cold engine oil you will erase the first segment)
then after 5 minutes of walking you transfer to oil and no more problems. Before stopping it you purge it with gasiol another 5 minutes you will be ready for the next cold start.
Then you will think about putting a pant that works well on a single cylinder. as you already walk in oil and it becomes economical you will ask yourself the question why a panton?
even if the pant does not bring you a big saving on oil ', it will prevent the segments from erasing especially on the oil market if the injector is not naked it ends up sending l oil that cooks in the segments and descend into the sump. (we just reopened a Jetta TD after 50 km in oil)
For the panton walk I put a little more water since I was 100% oil and I have 7200 km this year this is not enough to guarantee that the panton has prevent sticking of the segments
to date the oil consumption has not increased (the level either) and the engine does not blow through the breather.
Good luck finding an affordable diesel generator!

Andre
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by jonule » 05/10/06, 14:31

in the meantime, the converter solution 12> 220 connected to the vehicle must work ?!
by cotnre must buy a converter worthy of the name, I tried on a fridge / freezer 100W of consumption, with a PC inverter connected to a car battery, as soon as I opened the door the 2 fuses 30A blown !
from the start of the fridge / freezer compressor motor. condenser dirt! apparently it gets around with a choke upstream, taken on the primary of a transformer of power equal to the desired consumption, which is not obvious ... otherwise you have to take a BIG converter!
I bought a 200 € for a 2000W (supported 4000 in crete) pseudo-sinus (worked well on everything, except on eco lamp it hissed a little, but there are filters ??) on the soft energy store of ebay ...

hey yes a car engine it works well already: we even have hot water! just recover the hoses from the passenger compartment heating system (or connect a T) ...
with a multimeter connected to the battery you can see if it fails and adjust the engine idle speed accordingly ... well it will heat up but as said above, just cool by extending the cooling circuit, especially if there is no fan that triggers automatically; the best being to connect one to a strap like the perkins ...

I think we can not use the air conditioning either, but we must be able to add several alternators on the belt ... obviously the engine would run on oil, diesel indirect injection bosch pump injectors 185 bars pre-wash pump electric reheater before the GO filter, and we can pantonize it.
on direct injection be careful if the engine is not loaded, at idle, it will actually clog if the exhaust T ° C, representative of the load, is not at least 300 ° c ... on indirect ok it goes up well ;-)

to make 220: you have to find a three-phase asynchronous motor, they have a "squirrel cage" ie an output grid for cooling no doubt.
example: if the motor consumes on 380V 1500W to run at 1400 rpm, info given on the motor plate, then its synchronism speed is 1500 rpm (there are 600, 1000, 1500 and 3000 ...) it will suffice to run this same engine at 1500 + (1500-1400) = 1600 rpm with the internal combustion engine for it to produce 380V! thus with a star connection of capacitors on the triangle phase connection will allow 3 times 1500W on 220V. the calculation of the capacitors is done here:
http://perso.orange.fr/ebonys/pagespeciales/telecharge.htm
"
WARNING !!!!
As soon as the generator has reached synchronous speed and can produce energy, it MUST BE CONNECTED TO A LOAD !!!! resistance or network. Otherwise the wind turbine may run away because it will not be "Restrained" by the generator !!!!
"
otherwise you can also connect the engine to the network, it will not consume but will produce.

in short an old engine can be useful!
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by renaud67 » 06/10/06, 15:18

Hello
that's it i found the thread i was looking for : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/montage-100-pantone-sur-gros-groupe-electrogene-t1549.html
that's it for Targol : Mrgreen:
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by sam17 » 06/10/06, 20:31

The group elec of the thread of renaud67 was bought with the sales of the fields (the reformed material of the army, the national education, the state, etc) with the biddings. It's relatively common as gear, you have to subscribe to the boad (a sort of newspaper for small auctions) to be aware of upcoming sales in your region. After the price is made according to the customers present at the sale and the mood of the auctioneer.

Regarding my experimentation on the famous group, I was forced to put it aside for lack of time, but I do not despair of being able to resume it in the winter :)
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