Reactions following injection of water M4 BMW ...

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Reactions following injection of water M4 BMW ...




by Christophe » 26/02/15, 14:32

Following this news https://www.econologie.com/forums/injection- ... 13753.html that I sent by email to the members of forums, I received some feedback in private.

Here is a small selection:

Interested this post on BMW, but not new at all as an idea. In 89 I was finishing my engineering studies at UCL and two comrades were doing their dissertation on the injection of water vapor to improve the efficiency of a gasoline engine. If I remember correctly they were testing this with a Renault PRV engine equipped with a steam plant kettle. Like what the evolution of the research to the application is not very fast.

cordially
Angelo


Hello,


I also built this steam engine about 8 years ago on a 2,3l mountain range and I have been running it for about 5 years.

from 9,5l / 100, I fell to 6,5l / 100 and a polution about 3 times lower.

I sold this car there is about 18 months she was then 24 years.

no news since I guess it always rolls


At the age of 20 I owned a Simca 1300, its engine had a serious defect, the two cylinders located in the center of the engine block were too close to each other, which left a narrow space between these two cylinders, and in addition this space was pierced in its midst by a diamond-shaped hole for the passage of cooling water from the aluminum cylinder head. to go in the cast iron engine block.

At this place the cylinder head gasket was also drilled and this reduced to two strips of "cardboard" of two times 2.5 mm. As I get older, the cylinder head becomes deformed, so before finding the cause of the failure, I burnt my cylinder head gaskets four times in succession (I had to reinstall a new engine) but before that I was able to realize that when my Cylinder head gaskets were being burnt out, my modest Simca was becoming as powerful as a Porsche for about thirty km.

This was due to the "fire" from the two cylinders which gradually hollowed out thanks to the pressure, a fine channel through the seal to join the cooling water circulation hole located between them. So that the center pistons sucked from this hole a fine jet of vapor which mixed with the air-benzine mixture. The engine would acquire tremendous power in a temporary manner, but the burning of the gasket continued, and widened the initial passage of steam, and consequently the only central cylinders concerned, ended up sucking too much water, and that was the breakdown. This glitch made me think of creating at that time a DIY with a screwed steam pot, against the motor so that it heats the water contained in it, and once in the form of steam it would have been conducted by a pipe to the hole end, towards the carburetor, my father who was a mechanic burst out laughing, and dissuaded me from undertaking such a DIY. Except I tell myself that there are here in the use of water addition, multiple technological possibilities, in particular to produce electricity, so have the see, there are many possibilities even before resorting to the nuclear bullshit
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by Christophe » 26/02/15, 14:37

One more interesting on the anteriority (which one has not yet evoked in the subject of the analyzes of patents: https://www.econologie.com/forums/brevets-bm ... 13760.html )

Hello,

In itself the use of water is not new, aquazole (emulsion
diesel-water) has been used for a long time.

On this patent application, the examiner's report has been published (see attached), it shows that all the claims (1-10)
correspond to already known knowledge (marking "X" on the left), without even needing to combine several existing separate elements (this would then be the marking "Y"), which means that the invention is not patentable for lack of novelty or inventive step. Of course this does not mean that the patent will be refused in the end (it is not uncommon for the applicant to be able to argue and have it recognized that his invention is in reality not so close to the elements noted by the examiner, who tends to take all he can), but it's still the equivalent of losing a trial at first instance.

Michel


Doc attached: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 3x0YT8.pdf
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by Christophe » 26/02/15, 14:41

(...) I can always continue to develop this theoretical work (besides, a thermo model is only one step, it will be necessary to develop then a model of physical evolution on the basis of the chemical equation, meca flu, etc.). In the physical part that I wanted to realize, I did not choose the solution of BMW, rather a heating of steam water to introduce into the air filter. but the thermo model was designed precisely to validate theoretically before building physically, because I do not have the means of BMW and I prefer to understand rather than to try randomly as they do.
Here it is weird to be an illuminated without means of realization, and to learn that the powerful have developed something that looks like.
thank you in any case for your information.
--- John ---
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by Christophe » 27/02/15, 00:24

One more:

The injection of water was used in the high-efficiency aviation engines II GM, it is a well-controlled technology and described in Aviation. Hello


(yes we knew ...)
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by Janic » 27/02/15, 08:22

from 9,5l / 100, I fell to 6,5l / 100 and a polution about 3 times lower.


all the same 32% for a gas!
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by Christophe » 27/02/15, 08:34

Yes with no doubt a part of effect eco driving!

What could we call placebo fuel savers!
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by elephant » 27/02/15, 09:56

Note, however, that for example the economy on the Sierra 2,3 l is similar to what has been achieved with the new management systems / recent injection.

And indeed, find systems for old engines is to be done.

What about improvement on modern engines?
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by Janic » 27/02/15, 10:24

elephant hello

And indeed, find systems for old engines is to be done.


absolutely! The number of old-generation diesel engines is much larger than the recent very sophisticated ones, so it is these first ones that matter most in terms of reducing consumption and therefore pollution.
So, certainly, an eco-driving improves both as it did not exist before, of course!
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by Christophe » 27/02/15, 12:22

elephant wrote:What about improvement on modern engines?


BMW speaks of 8% on its M4 "under certain very precise conditions" and it is a modern engine "could not be more" ...

https://www.econologie.com/forums/injection- ... 13753.html
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Re: Reactions following the BMW M4 water injection ...




by Remundo » 08/05/17, 22:40

FEV Motorentechnik takes BMW's ideas on an Audi

Relayed by Nature Engine
Image
FEV explains that the water injection can be optimized to increase performance, so you get more 10% of power, and more 18% of torque, or set to reduce consumption. We can then reduce the fuel mass up to 10%. To interested builders to inquire with FEV.

What is notable and claimed: we can increase the power of 10% (performance setting) or reduce the consumption of 10% (eco setting)
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