It is high time to popularize econology!

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It is high time to popularize econology!




by check mark » 24/01/09, 18:05

good evening everyone

The weekend is here, it is raining, and to warm myself I come to utter a cry of anger accompanied by an observation which may shock some but which is legitimate:
Ecology and a fortiori econology generates more debates, reflections and short-term projects than actions!

In other words, if there were as many real applications and concrete achievements at the level of the population as literature and great speeches, sustainable development would have taken a big step forward.
All the sites and specialized journals I consult go into technical discussions and optimization considerations that make the vast majority of those interested full of motivation and courage to bring their little stone to the building throws in the towel before even to have started their project.

Many questions asked, subjects opened by neophytes, very interesting subjects of the rest, and which end in fishtail or in outright abandonment!
Too complicated, too expensive, too uncertain, too vague, etc.

In the end, only specialists, experts and other pros equipped with quasi-professional manufacturing equipment can afford to embark on a realization often more for the pleasure of DIY and technological "beauty" than for ecological interest. .

For the others, those like me who are pointed out and blamed for doing nothing, it remains to turn to a commercial enterprise which will profit from this ignorance, this "incompetence", and this guilt for selling you hot water or clean electricity at a high price.
I have experienced it: solar, thermal, geothermal, ... an investment that borders on 20000 euros (quotes also play yoyo without my being able to really understand why).

Another heartbreaking detail: I try to keep myself informed by buying from time to time a specialized magazine on the subject (sustainable development, renewable energies, ecology ...). The price is that of luxury magazines! At less than 5 euros per magazine, it is because it is an uninteresting magazine or an introductory offer.

Economic behavior is ultimately expensive, very expensive too expensive. With all these prices, I prefer to connect a very energy-hungry appliance to an outlet in my living room and pay my bills to EDF, put gas in my car, fuel in my boiler and tell myself that protecting the environment it's for others or for later… even if I hear that later will be too late!

By the way, I believe that Nicolat Hulot and Jean Louis Borloo also make this observation because the Grenelle now take the form of wishful thinking. With each emission or declaration, although renewing their warning speech, they seem more and more annoyed and jaded!

What solutions to this distressing finding?

- Make it simple perhaps. How many subjects have I read on magazines, websites which, from the second page, drowned me in such technical and theoretical discourse that I give up.

- Before considering "The best", it is necessary to do "Quite short". Don't we say that "The best is the enemy of the good".
So even if the time and energy devoted to a project are not technically and scientifically profitable, or even ecologically insufficient, it will always be better than nothing and above all within everyone's reach. The conclusions that I read the most are: “technically it's not ideal!”, “Economically it's not profitable enough”, or even, “ecologically, it's too little”…

- True to Paretto's law which says that 80% of the population only has 20% of decision-making power (and vice versa), it would be good to think about how to provide these 80% with simple and economical means of reacting . Installing solar panels, buying an economical, low-emission or even electric car, carpooling, taking the train, bus or bicycle, this is often materially and economically impossible for most of us.

If you have ideas, let's talk!

Good on that, it's getting dark and chilly ... I'm going to turn on all my halogen lamps and turn up the temperature on my electric heaters.
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by the middle » 27/01/09, 00:29

:? Yep, I understand you, the fly ...
But maybe one day, a good invention will see the light of day.
You have to have faith ... : Cheesy:
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by Grelinette » 27/01/09, 08:49

lejustemilieu wrote::? ... maybe one day, a good invention will see the light of day. You have to have faith ... : Cheesy:


I think there are already a lot of good ideas and good inventions ... at the back of the drawers.

The only ones that see the light of day are those who do not shake up a lobby, a political choice or the interest of a powerful! :frown:

... and I add a layer: living in the countryside not too far from a village, I inquired to acquire an electric bike ...

Price 1500 euros minimum for a basic model! ...

At this rate I fear as much as it is more economical and especially more bearable to take my car to go get the bread and the newspaper!
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by Grelinette » 27/01/09, 10:54

... and I add another layer:
on another subject, with the friendly titiyador, we are desperately trying to make a car alternator spit a few volts. Hey bin: nothing! : Evil:
It looks like 2 gallinaceous who found a toaster or a potato peeler and wondering how it works! : Shock:

However it is the BA BA of donkeys to imagine that an alternator is like a bicycle dynamo: it turns = it makes electricity ... Hey no, lost! : Cry:

However, I think that we are like the vast majority of ecologically sensitive citizens ready to do something, and who cannot afford to buy a system. all beautiful, all ready, brand new, all dear to make a little current and avoid plugging in a greedy device.

In short, +1 to the observation of the fly: If you are not rich and not a genius, econology is complicated and out of reach!
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by the middle » 27/01/09, 11:31

+1 GrelinetteImage
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Re: It is high time to popularize econology!




by Christophe » 24/12/21, 17:21

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Re: It is high time to popularize econology!




by Exnihiloest » 26/12/21, 23:11

mouche du coche wrote:...
- True to Paretto's law which says that 80% of the population only has 20% of decision-making power (and vice versa), it would be good to think about how to provide these 80% with simple and economical means of reacting . Installing solar panels, buying an economical, low-emission or even electric car, carpooling, taking the train, bus or bicycle, this is often materially and economically impossible for most of us.
...

And it is happy. They are either sources of expenditure without any ecological gain, or solutions which have so many disadvantages that keeping the so-called problems makes life much cooler.

The (bad) idea is to believe that the industry would sacrifice everything to make a profit. However, if she knew how to make totally clean and inexpensive solutions, she would already do so because she knows that there is demand. But the industry does not know how to do it: when we confront the technical realities, we quickly see their limits. So it is not the ecological ideologue who will be able to find us alternatives. The only two "ideas" of ecologism that I noted, it is "to prohibit" or "to tax".

So we have to take our side: the standard of living has an impact on the environment, proportional. This impact is manipulated by ecological ideology to make it appear intolerable, just to convert more and more people to the new religion. Either we enter into religion, and we live in our unheated wooden cabin, feeding on the vegetable garden of our piece of land on which we will have to spend all our time, or we accept its impact on nature to one degree or another. , which will depend on his own vision and the choice of his lifestyle.
To believe that society could provide everyone with a universal, reliable and cheap ecological context, when there is no consensus neither on the criteria of choice nor on the things to be sacrificed, is a utopia. As for thinking that it should is wanting a totalitarian society alongside which the "health dictatorship" would be nothing but a trifle.
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by Exnihiloest » 26/12/21, 23:20

Grelinette wrote:...
However it is the BA BA of donkeys to imagine that an alternator is like a bicycle dynamo: it turns = it makes electricity ... Hey no, lost! : Cry:
...

No, it's won. In engineers too, when things turn, they make electricity. So if it doesn't work, you missed something.
Remember that unlike a dynamo, it is alternating current.
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Re: It is high time to popularize econology!




by izentrop » 27/12/21, 12:38

“Econology” is a portmanteau word resulting from the juxtaposition of the prefix écono- from the term economy and the suffix -logy from the term ecology to highlight the fact that the words ecology and economy have an etymological point of view. Same direction. The word meaning that this new approach wants to reconcile ecology and economy2. Likewise, “ecolonomy” juxtaposes the ecological prefix from ecology, and the -nomy suffix from the term economy; this other portmanteau is a synonym. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89con ... 9tymologie

Ecology is a wish that we wish as little disturbing as possible ... In fact, it is most often the economy that takes precedence, we leave the ecological effort to others and that suits the management market well. garbage.

A concrete example is that we no longer find an A ++ fridge and freezer. Yet it is a question of "reinforced insulation". In the era of 1 euro insulation, that should no longer be a problem, especially since energy is becoming a significant cost.

Instead of that we integrate the coils in the bodywork ... it is more jouli and more economical to manufacture, but at the same time increases the losses compared to the coil deported at the rear.

In addition, it becomes impossible to over-isolate as can be done in DHW https://www.apper-solaire.org/Pages/Fic ... /index.pdf

For a freezer, the ΔT is the same as for a DHW of the same volume, an over insulation of 6 cm / 200 l = 1 kWh less per day, it is not nothing anyway
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Re: It is high time to popularize econology!




by Christophe » 27/12/21, 12:51

I am amazed at the response from exni ...

I expected more simply a

"Econology is crap" ...

: Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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