steam injection without pantone reactor

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
John Do57
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steam injection without pantone reactor




by John Do57 » 05/11/06, 13:10

Hello,

Some of you think I tested an injection of non-heated water, ie without Pantone reactor heated by exhaust gases. For example, a simple bubbler connected to the inlet.

What are the results? Is it really worse than the Pantone reactor?

This pourait help understand if the performance improvement comes from the water itself (absorption of heat, improving the spread of flame, ...) or a chemical reaction (water splitting, cracking of fuel, ...)

Goods.
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toftof
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by toftof » 05/11/06, 16:23

Hello

I mounted a pantome engine on my tractor and when a friend saw me doing it at the workshop, he wanted to be smarter and not go through the reactor. So he worked on a renault 21. He built a stainless steel heat exchanger and fitted a valve on that "pressure cooker". When the pressure is strong, the valve opens to provide a fine and continuous vapor. It injects it directly into the intake pipe of its diesel engine.

The result was a very bad since hen the engine has consumed the vapor, my friends could count the strokes of the pistons so slammed and deriere engine, steam locomotive worthy of a burst its pot of ESC.

This is an experience that can be can help you.
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Other
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by Other » 05/11/06, 17:16

Hello,
Whether using a reactor, an injection of water mist or vapor as the case toftof or as the case Vickx, we must make a rigorous dosing with the engine load, too much is worse than no enough .. we made a good ratio 14,7 / 1 for gasoline why would drown the engine with steam, too much water results in surconsomation when it fumme white back in the summer just passed the ion dose 4 5 from a time ..
There is an economic balance which is in a narrow window and a power mix that lergerment over wider.
So in your experiences start with water and gradually increase, when the sensation of power comes you have just exceeded the economic point.
Or is it more complex to consider that the reactor has limits to treat a flow of water, and often the engine more we take but the reactor does not provide, cases of full power. A 65% of the power supplied rector but the engine did not take more.

Andre

Andre
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John Do57
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by John Do57 » 06/11/06, 12:45

Okay.

But is that a single injection of water, without the reactor would not be enough to get lower consumption?
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tiger
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by tiger » 06/11/06, 14:54

I do not know the technical details but I read that the folks at us a manufacturer; on their 747; inject takeoff between 8 and 10 tons of water ds reactors as powerful misting for 150% of pushed during takeoff ...

They would have stung the Germans ca, Meeserchmit s109 one will release had a water injector to mount tours during ascents comabta aérien..ce that gave them a little more fishing than airplanes us..de the time..


Someone confirm?
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Other
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by Other » 06/11/06, 15:49

Hello

Jean-Do57 wrote:Okay.

But is that a single injection of water, without the reactor would not be enough to get lower consumption?


Go see the VIX system a little big jar as a glass mustard is good for 1000 km, it annonoce between 20 30% and%
I've never tried, remains to be confirmed. It is plugged directly into the engine vacuum, the only Hic do I see is that this slow water pump max and full load depression becomes low and a water pump minimu while experience tell me otherwise, water consomation follows consomation fuel .. and slow it is preferable to send anything. (As ERG valve)

Laurent request he made experiments in this direction, it might give you more information on these results.

For BF-109 Gustav and jets taking off, the water mixture of alcohol (it's cold up) is not saving his role is completely differrent much in the engine piston in the turbojet.

Andre
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 18/11/06, 18:38

Hello
Laurentdelaon is one of the only ones tested very precisely this system.
He obtained very good results both in consumption in engine performance.
Now it should make a Pantone mounting water doping on the same engine as Lawrence to be able to compare and decide on the matter.
To put it simply makes you a bubbler heated by coolant poses a venturi in the engine inlet sleeve and connects the live bubbler.
Does not like the buddy Toftof putting a valve you doing up pressure which leads eventually too strong a flow of steam. Quantitée the water consumed by the motor has remained at around 1L / 100km to be sure not to stupidity.
I tried this system without result but I had not been a venturi in the intake and water consumption was equivalent to natural evaporation 70 ° C.
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by Other » 18/11/06, 18:56

Hello,
Or is the compliquation?
If you have a reactor with a bubbler, it becomes easy to exit the bubbler and send it directly into the engine, just leads to change places, and easy to go through the reactor, then so do the comparison poses no problem for one who already has an installed reactor.
I think Laurent has already asked us to do this test, Pit you can do as well with any method, carburetor bubbler injection, simply By passing the reactor, going directly into the engine must not .. send large drops of water into the motor whatever the method.
Nothing like trying to please you, but if you do not have Company results with both systems, this will be what your conclusion from this experience? you must first run a system, then you can make variations and comparisons, as I have already told you that testing is something long and it takes time and fuel is not everyone who wants to make 200km sometimes just to voir..et half way water flow is blocked, you have to start ..

Andre
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by camel1 » 01/03/07, 00:39

Hi Andrew, and others!

Andre wrote:Hello,

I think Laurent has already asked us to do this test, Pit you can do as well with any method, carburetor bubbler injection, simply By passing the reactor, going directly into the engine must not .. send large drops of water into the motor whatever the method.


Monday I made the connection to the ground tests with steam through pantone, and steam directly to the intake stitching, this will allow us to compare - in terms of depression / same temperature - the respective perf two system .. .

Finally, as far as I am concerned, the mass has already been said, since we know that with simple injection, we obtain in the best case "only" 15% maximum, where we have exceeded the bar 30%, on variable driving conditions, with many short trips. and without losing sight of the fact that this is an average ...
The 15% more, which they released you?

Nothing like trying to please you, but if you do not have Company results with both systems, this will be what your conclusion from this experience? you must first run a system, then you can make variations and comparisons, as I have already told you that testing is something long and it takes time and fuel is not everyone who wants to make 200km sometimes just to voir..et half way water flow is blocked, you have to start ..

Andre


+1

A + + +
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by PITMIX » 01/03/07, 09:30

camel1 wrote:Finally, as far as I am concerned, the mass has already been said, since we know that with simple injection, we obtain in the best case "only" 15% maximum, where we have exceeded the bar 30%, on variable driving conditions, with many short trips. and without losing sight of the fact that this is an average ...
The 15% more, which they released you?


-1

hi Camel1
Laurent demand for 15%

I think you do not take the issue in the right direction.
The goal is not to prove that the reactor is better than simple steam injection. It is a certainty presques.

What to know is whether or not it is possible to obtain a conso reduction without the reactor.
If this is the case I think it will change everything from the perspective that we carry on the understanding of the water doped with the reactor.
We put a little aside the ideas of magnetization and others that we can not control, to focus on the simpler things.
Quantitée water, heat, air ...

As the system is very simple and it limits the adjustments that will be if the proof is made to obtain a more scalable system for different cars and can also be more reliable.
If using this system it is possible to save 15% for sure that faciliterat work of many DIYers including myself. It will then be the one who wants to go to step reactor to increase the performance of the water doping knowing that the task will be more complicated.

I would also stressed that on my car using the reactor as a GV I have absolutely not observed the same operating temperatures with and without reactor.

Do not leave out simple tests that have potential.

All this is only supposition but finally here is my personal opinion what! : Cheesy:
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