Hello everyone,
Following the rereading of the pages of M.David on quant man, I read that it made turn diesel engine only thanks to the pantone (pump in slowed down position) or more pump at all?
Has anyone ever done the same thing?
If yes, does it work?
The reason for this post is that finding a good old fuel oil car with an hs pump is much cheaper and less polluting than a car in working order and its beautiful pump full of complex mechanics and belt and everything !!!!
The only problem is maybe for starting (cold reactor) you can always put the camping gas below to see !!!!
Thank you for your next replies soon
QUICK from Martinique!
Diesel engine without injection pump
Hello
In idle position it is possible, but no pump at all that will amaze me greatly, which will ignite, compress ?, which will make speed regulation a pappillon like auto petrol?
Currently a diesel at idle if you feed it in the air filter with vapor or sprayed fuel, its speed starts to go up, but I'm not sure that the engine will swallow this way of doing long, with a hot panton ( very hot) it produces a gas which does not self-ignite so from this point of view it can be interesting, but it takes a drop of diesel injection
to set it on fire.
A petrol engine runs in a panton with oil, Those who put the oil breather in their pants, or those who put sunflower oil in their bubbler is what they do, finished the filtering, but it takes heat in the bubbler and a pappillon on the air without which you risk seeing your diesel, a connecting rod crossing the engine block ...
Andre
In idle position it is possible, but no pump at all that will amaze me greatly, which will ignite, compress ?, which will make speed regulation a pappillon like auto petrol?
Currently a diesel at idle if you feed it in the air filter with vapor or sprayed fuel, its speed starts to go up, but I'm not sure that the engine will swallow this way of doing long, with a hot panton ( very hot) it produces a gas which does not self-ignite so from this point of view it can be interesting, but it takes a drop of diesel injection
to set it on fire.
A petrol engine runs in a panton with oil, Those who put the oil breather in their pants, or those who put sunflower oil in their bubbler is what they do, finished the filtering, but it takes heat in the bubbler and a pappillon on the air without which you risk seeing your diesel, a connecting rod crossing the engine block ...
Andre
0 x
I am not a diesel specialist but the little that I know
tell me that in terms of compression it does not pose
problems since it is the stroke of the cylinders that
supplied. on the other hand with regard to ignition there may be a
problem. Indeed, the ignition is done at a very precise time.
to know when injecting with a slight offset
which is paid in advance. By depriving yourself of an injector nothing prevents
the lighting to be done too late or worse still too early.
This is what happens when the injection pump is out of order.
This results in a loss of power if the injection is made too late or valve bangs, loss of power and
irregular operation if it is too early. In any case, this is
that I observed when I had to adjust the injection pump
my tractor after having it repaired.
So sucking the fuel with the air is unlikely
ignition takes place at the right time.
But if I am wrong it will suit me I would like my
tractor works without injectors or just an air supply.
to switch to 100% oil it would be easier.
tell me that in terms of compression it does not pose
problems since it is the stroke of the cylinders that
supplied. on the other hand with regard to ignition there may be a
problem. Indeed, the ignition is done at a very precise time.
to know when injecting with a slight offset
which is paid in advance. By depriving yourself of an injector nothing prevents
the lighting to be done too late or worse still too early.
This is what happens when the injection pump is out of order.
This results in a loss of power if the injection is made too late or valve bangs, loss of power and
irregular operation if it is too early. In any case, this is
that I observed when I had to adjust the injection pump
my tractor after having it repaired.
So sucking the fuel with the air is unlikely
ignition takes place at the right time.
But if I am wrong it will suit me I would like my
tractor works without injectors or just an air supply.
to switch to 100% oil it would be easier.
0 x
Hello again,
indeed I am wrong !!!
here is the explanation of M.David
"One would first of all think that the absence of an ignition device on this type of engine will pose a problem, well it is not so, because it suffices to keep the engine in the state at the level of its fuel supply. It will simply be necessary to install a second throttle control to control the GEET reactor and all its equipment. Thus with these two controls the engine can operate indifferently in the traditional way, thanks to its fuel injection circuit (when the engine will be cold at the start), or else by the GEET reactor control, the gas ignition of which will be ensured by the self-ignition of the fuel sent into the engine by the injection pump operating in its slowed down position.
I hope you understand that it is the little fuel injected into the air / gas mixture which after compression in the cylinder head, will cause the combustion of the assembly by auto ignition.
It should be understood that when the engine is powered by gas from the PANTONE reactor, it is no longer a DIESEL engine, but an internal combustion engine running on gas. When you feed it with fuel by changing the accelerator lever it becomes a DIESEL engine again, that is to say an internal combustion engine. This is possible without risk of damaging the engine, because the reactor gas can be compressed at a high rate without risk of premature self-ignition before injection of the idle fuel which will trigger the explosion. In its operation with gas the Diesel engine will have a higher output than a gasoline engine with lower compression ratio. It is obvious that the reactor must function correctly and not let pass gasoline not transformed into gas.
It is necessary to leave the pump in the slowed down position so that a little diesel can ignite the pantone gas but as for the advance setting, it is centrifugal according to the rotation speed or simply controlled by the position of the pump control lever?
If it is centrifugal no problem if it is by the lever there is problem !!
Rabbit and André, the idea of putting a single injector that spits a small amount of diesel in the intake after the gas has arrived and a butterfly on the air intake to vary the engine speed must work.
What do you think?
It doesn’t fix my business but thank you for your answers soon
quick
indeed I am wrong !!!
here is the explanation of M.David
"One would first of all think that the absence of an ignition device on this type of engine will pose a problem, well it is not so, because it suffices to keep the engine in the state at the level of its fuel supply. It will simply be necessary to install a second throttle control to control the GEET reactor and all its equipment. Thus with these two controls the engine can operate indifferently in the traditional way, thanks to its fuel injection circuit (when the engine will be cold at the start), or else by the GEET reactor control, the gas ignition of which will be ensured by the self-ignition of the fuel sent into the engine by the injection pump operating in its slowed down position.
I hope you understand that it is the little fuel injected into the air / gas mixture which after compression in the cylinder head, will cause the combustion of the assembly by auto ignition.
It should be understood that when the engine is powered by gas from the PANTONE reactor, it is no longer a DIESEL engine, but an internal combustion engine running on gas. When you feed it with fuel by changing the accelerator lever it becomes a DIESEL engine again, that is to say an internal combustion engine. This is possible without risk of damaging the engine, because the reactor gas can be compressed at a high rate without risk of premature self-ignition before injection of the idle fuel which will trigger the explosion. In its operation with gas the Diesel engine will have a higher output than a gasoline engine with lower compression ratio. It is obvious that the reactor must function correctly and not let pass gasoline not transformed into gas.
It is necessary to leave the pump in the slowed down position so that a little diesel can ignite the pantone gas but as for the advance setting, it is centrifugal according to the rotation speed or simply controlled by the position of the pump control lever?
If it is centrifugal no problem if it is by the lever there is problem !!
Rabbit and André, the idea of putting a single injector that spits a small amount of diesel in the intake after the gas has arrived and a butterfly on the air intake to vary the engine speed must work.
What do you think?
It doesn’t fix my business but thank you for your answers soon
quick
0 x
Hello
The problem, having tried it on a petrol engine to make it run on fuel oil with a panton reactor.
When the reactor is hot if the air gas panton ratio is good
it works as well as with gasoline, no smoke, a little less power, except that the adjustment of the ratio remains as delicate as on a gasoline carburetor. too rich it smokes, too poor it does not draw any more, as soon as the speed decreases the cooled reactor and it no longer makes gas geet it just makes a fog of fuel oil, the rod gets wet, the reactor does not function any more and the engine starts has auto ignited as if it ran with gasoline of very poor quality, even he does not want to stop when you turn off the ignition.
On a small 125cc constant speed engine this works No 1 with fuel oil for hours without making smoke and almost no difference in power (the richness adjustment is easier) the fuel consumption is less than l 'petrol I speak in volume I do my tests over a period of walking time at constant load with a jar of fuel.
If you try experiments on a diesel, plan a button to close the entire air intake if you do not want to lose your engine just in case it gets carried away, this happens with engines that swallow the vapors of crankcase oil.
Andre
The problem, having tried it on a petrol engine to make it run on fuel oil with a panton reactor.
When the reactor is hot if the air gas panton ratio is good
it works as well as with gasoline, no smoke, a little less power, except that the adjustment of the ratio remains as delicate as on a gasoline carburetor. too rich it smokes, too poor it does not draw any more, as soon as the speed decreases the cooled reactor and it no longer makes gas geet it just makes a fog of fuel oil, the rod gets wet, the reactor does not function any more and the engine starts has auto ignited as if it ran with gasoline of very poor quality, even he does not want to stop when you turn off the ignition.
On a small 125cc constant speed engine this works No 1 with fuel oil for hours without making smoke and almost no difference in power (the richness adjustment is easier) the fuel consumption is less than l 'petrol I speak in volume I do my tests over a period of walking time at constant load with a jar of fuel.
If you try experiments on a diesel, plan a button to close the entire air intake if you do not want to lose your engine just in case it gets carried away, this happens with engines that swallow the vapors of crankcase oil.
Andre
0 x
-
Woodcutter
- Econologue expert
- posts: 4731
- Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
- Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
- x 2
Houlà! What confusion and untruths in this post!quick wrote:[...] It should be understood that when the engine is powered by gas from the PANTONE reactor, it is no longer a DIESEL engine, but an internal combustion engine running on gas. When you feed it with fuel by changing the accelerator lever it becomes a so-called DIESEL engine, that is to say an internal combustion engine. [...]
What is a "Diesel" engine? It is a combustion engine internal à compression ignition, while a petrol engine is a controlled ignition...
Whether it is powered by diesel or GEET gas does not change anything: it remains a DIESEL engine whose ignition is done by injecting a fuel which ignites on contact with the superheated air (because strongly compressed) from the combustion chamber ...
Technical precision has never damaged the relevance of a statement or an opinion ...
0 x
Hello
If we take a text bridle it can be confusing
I don't know if David tried the experiment, but his claims are credible and I respect the great contribution he made to the panton system. (for having had a lot of experience I know who did them too, by the description of the problems encountered)
on the experiments that I made it is the same observation, which passes in the panton air and fuel gasoline, fuel oil or oil vapor. this fuel at the outlet does not ignite, I did not push for 20/1 compressions but it is a fact with fuel oil and engine oil no autoignition,
so if i follow david's reason we eat diesel fuel gas that comes out of the reactor and will not ignite at the end of compression, he uses the drop of diesel at idle to fire, until the all this and nothing prevents the running of this engine, if we control the air gas panton ratio.
In summary what David wanted to say is to use a robust high compression engine and to make it work in pants 100%
with fuel, we could have put a spark plug HT ignition to this engine, but for the sake of simplicity why not use the slow injection for firing.
We must not confuse the small motors that ignite on the compression, which have a high rotational speed and a short stroke. (self-ignition corresponds to the advance of these engines)
With a can of ether in sprai, it is easy to run a diesel engine, even with a rag soaked in gasoline by pressing it in the hole of the air filter, but the one speaks of auto ignition, is beating intense motor ...
By 3 times on an old diesel (Rabbit) it happened to me that the very hot engine while driving it eats the vapors of oil from the catere, even by letting go the accelerator the vehicle leaves in a rare tone with a cloud in the back , if this had happened at neutral point at idling the engine would be demolished ... that's auto ignition.
Andre
If we take a text bridle it can be confusing
I don't know if David tried the experiment, but his claims are credible and I respect the great contribution he made to the panton system. (for having had a lot of experience I know who did them too, by the description of the problems encountered)
on the experiments that I made it is the same observation, which passes in the panton air and fuel gasoline, fuel oil or oil vapor. this fuel at the outlet does not ignite, I did not push for 20/1 compressions but it is a fact with fuel oil and engine oil no autoignition,
so if i follow david's reason we eat diesel fuel gas that comes out of the reactor and will not ignite at the end of compression, he uses the drop of diesel at idle to fire, until the all this and nothing prevents the running of this engine, if we control the air gas panton ratio.
In summary what David wanted to say is to use a robust high compression engine and to make it work in pants 100%
with fuel, we could have put a spark plug HT ignition to this engine, but for the sake of simplicity why not use the slow injection for firing.
We must not confuse the small motors that ignite on the compression, which have a high rotational speed and a short stroke. (self-ignition corresponds to the advance of these engines)
With a can of ether in sprai, it is easy to run a diesel engine, even with a rag soaked in gasoline by pressing it in the hole of the air filter, but the one speaks of auto ignition, is beating intense motor ...
By 3 times on an old diesel (Rabbit) it happened to me that the very hot engine while driving it eats the vapors of oil from the catere, even by letting go the accelerator the vehicle leaves in a rare tone with a cloud in the back , if this had happened at neutral point at idling the engine would be demolished ... that's auto ignition.
Andre
0 x
-
petitclamart
- I discovered econologic
- posts: 5
- Registration: 28/12/04, 15:35
Hello,
For there to be auto-ignition of the oil, it must be very hot (not normal), and in this case, obviously, the drop of GO is no longer used. As you say, the combustion point is no longer controlled and the engine takes the speed it wants until the mechanical failure.
The advantage of diesel for a pantone reactor is the compression ratio, for optimum efficiency, and keeping the original injection helps on two points. The first is the warm-up as a "choke", and the second is the work to be done to mount an ignition. To these two advantageous points is added all the same another disadvantage, which is the consumption of GO just for ignition because every two engine revolutions there is an injection in each cylinder.
Finally, on my side I try to develop a pantone but it is not easy. That it works there is no doubt, but question developed .... it takes courage ... but as patience and courage do more than strength and rage ....
Salutations to all
For there to be auto-ignition of the oil, it must be very hot (not normal), and in this case, obviously, the drop of GO is no longer used. As you say, the combustion point is no longer controlled and the engine takes the speed it wants until the mechanical failure.
The advantage of diesel for a pantone reactor is the compression ratio, for optimum efficiency, and keeping the original injection helps on two points. The first is the warm-up as a "choke", and the second is the work to be done to mount an ignition. To these two advantageous points is added all the same another disadvantage, which is the consumption of GO just for ignition because every two engine revolutions there is an injection in each cylinder.
Finally, on my side I try to develop a pantone but it is not easy. That it works there is no doubt, but question developed .... it takes courage ... but as patience and courage do more than strength and rage ....
Salutations to all
0 x
-
Woodcutter
- Econologue expert
- posts: 4731
- Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
- Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
- x 2
I do not question the experiences and the results obtained by this gentleman, nor the concepts he defends ...Andre wrote:Hello
If we take a text bridle it can be confusing
I don't know if David tried the experiment, but his claims are credible and I respect the great contribution he made to the panton system. (for having had a lot of experience I know who did them too, by describing the problems encountered) [...]
I'm just saying that if you want to be credible, especially in a technical field, you have to speak precisely ...
The piece of text I quoted has elements that are simply FALSE. It doesn't matter that I quote the entire text, it does nothing.
• To say that the engine is no longer a diesel if it runs on Pantone gas is false, since in any case it remains a compression-ignition engine (as indicated later in this sentence "... because the reactor gas can be compressed at a high rate without the risk of premature self-ignition before injecting the idle fuel which will trigger the explosion."). It is not the fuel that makes a diesel or not, it is the operation.
• Say that "returns"an internal combustion engine is an idiocy, since it has never ceased to be so ... There is apparently confusion between internal combustion and something else ... See also the end of the sentence which says"... but an internal combustion engine running on gas ..."A petrol or diesel combustion engine is and remains an internal combustion engine, whether the ignition of the mixture is by compression or by means of a spark ...
It is not by using imprecise and / or esoteric language as some people do that we help to advance the cause that we are defending, on the contrary!
I repeat what I said above: all ideas are defensible, but with a little rigor in the expression, what the hell!
It avoids passing for branquignoles ...
0 x
Hello
Disagree with your engine design
A heat engine, yes all of them. (even those with steam)
But you have to differentiate between an internal combustion engine and a diesel engine, or even a turbojet.
The internal combustion engine has a well defined mixture and with a flame front, without reaching detonation
A diesel engine, no control over the air, we burn sprayed diesel at the end of compression in a mass of hot air.
A turbojet engine is also burned kerosene in several combustion chambers a small part of the compressed air from the compressor which have reduced the velocity to catch the flame. (a burner in a pressurized room)
Qaund we talk about diesel, the real diesels are those on the big engines on which the injection has a longer duration that makes engines or the combustion is effected at constant pressure the injection continues a descending part of the engine the rate compression is of the order of 14 these engines have a slow speed.
When language, it is little that I am difficult to follow, I express myself as the Quebec woodcutters.
David's reason is that we should have a high compression engine using what comes out of the reactor and run it as an explosion engine, so he suggests taking a diesel engine that has a crankshaft and a structure to support these constraints . if there was a high voltage spark ignition system on this engine it would happen to inject a drop of diesel. so to simplify it uses the engine slowdown to ignite it is not this drop of diesel which will give the necessary power to the engine,
After doping with water as I cap below 30%
I envisage exactly this kind of assembly. (Which was my starting line)
besides doping with water it is only one incident of traverses for me, I devoted more time to run engines explosion with oil than on doping with water.
Make a bubbler only with potato oil and swallow it with the engine, I have already tested with the oil vapors which comes out of the breather (bleeder), and I found no trace of oil in the nose of the turbo, which means that the reactor is quite hot.
This amounts to doping the oil, the advantage no oil filtration no paraffin problem and at all times you can just walk on diesel.
Although it is more out of curiosity than economy .. Considering the handling of the oil and the dirt of fatty product ..
To be credible or to spend (brankignole?) Do not know the meaning of the words or what we think of us pantoners, no matter ... I do not have enough years in front of me to linger a these details ..
The only thing that interests me about the forum is to exchange with panton fitters or those who have ideas, to improve the system,
Often if I take the time to explain to new people it is that, later on, it will be pantoners who will make improvements.
Andre
Disagree with your engine design
A petrol or diesel heat engine is and remains an internal combustion engine, whether the mixture is ignited by compression or by means of a spark ... >>
A heat engine, yes all of them. (even those with steam)
But you have to differentiate between an internal combustion engine and a diesel engine, or even a turbojet.
The internal combustion engine has a well defined mixture and with a flame front, without reaching detonation
A diesel engine, no control over the air, we burn sprayed diesel at the end of compression in a mass of hot air.
A turbojet engine is also burned kerosene in several combustion chambers a small part of the compressed air from the compressor which have reduced the velocity to catch the flame. (a burner in a pressurized room)
Qaund we talk about diesel, the real diesels are those on the big engines on which the injection has a longer duration that makes engines or the combustion is effected at constant pressure the injection continues a descending part of the engine the rate compression is of the order of 14 these engines have a slow speed.
When language, it is little that I am difficult to follow, I express myself as the Quebec woodcutters.
David's reason is that we should have a high compression engine using what comes out of the reactor and run it as an explosion engine, so he suggests taking a diesel engine that has a crankshaft and a structure to support these constraints . if there was a high voltage spark ignition system on this engine it would happen to inject a drop of diesel. so to simplify it uses the engine slowdown to ignite it is not this drop of diesel which will give the necessary power to the engine,
After doping with water as I cap below 30%
I envisage exactly this kind of assembly. (Which was my starting line)
besides doping with water it is only one incident of traverses for me, I devoted more time to run engines explosion with oil than on doping with water.
Make a bubbler only with potato oil and swallow it with the engine, I have already tested with the oil vapors which comes out of the breather (bleeder), and I found no trace of oil in the nose of the turbo, which means that the reactor is quite hot.
This amounts to doping the oil, the advantage no oil filtration no paraffin problem and at all times you can just walk on diesel.
Although it is more out of curiosity than economy .. Considering the handling of the oil and the dirt of fatty product ..
To be credible or to spend (brankignole?) Do not know the meaning of the words or what we think of us pantoners, no matter ... I do not have enough years in front of me to linger a these details ..
The only thing that interests me about the forum is to exchange with panton fitters or those who have ideas, to improve the system,
Often if I take the time to explain to new people it is that, later on, it will be pantoners who will make improvements.
Andre
0 x
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