Bizarre your business ...

[nofy]

Good evening everyone,
In competition it is forbidden to cool the fuel ... because we gain power ... There, if I read you correctly, it would be interesting to heat the air and the gasoline to consume less, at the expense of power. ..but if we lose power and we want to drive at the same speed, we will have to open more, so theoretically, we should consume more ... am I wrong? And I remember my 2 CV, when we came back from a trip in summer, in the early morning very cool, we felt quite a difference in draft, especially on a small engine like that, it was obvious ... or can -that it was alcohol that made me believe, you know!
Nofy (dream)

[PITMIX]

Thank you for your question because I ask myself too.

[nlc]

And I remember my 2 CV, when we came back from a trip in summer, in the early morning very cool, we felt quite a difference in draft, especially on a small engine like that, it was obvious ... or can -that it was alcohol that made me believe, you know!
Nofy (dream)

A 2CV doped with alcohol vapors, here is the new track to follow !!

For the question, this is also what I think, if we have less power, it involves opening a little more, it seems rather logical.

[Other]

Hello,
I think it makes a difference between power and efficiency
In general one is the opposite of the other when we modify a
engine
if we are looking for the maximum power of an engine
It takes a 12,5 gr air ratio for 1 gr gasoline

if we are looking for the maximum yield
it takes a ratio 18gr of air for 1 gr gasoline

The maximum power of an engine must be filled to the max so butterfly wide open cold air least humid
short and wide collector duct, large valve, rich mix
to achieve the highest rate of combustion. without regard to consumption.

The maximum output of an engine is to seek a given power with the least possible fuel.
the engine must be running in its maximum torque regime
it must have a long and narrow intake manifold this favors
the turbulence and the speed of the gas stream and the evaporation of the gasoline, it must have a long stroke that promotes relaxation,
air and fuel must be at a temperature above 15c
the motor must force (not to the exaggeration for the mechanical friction of the piston deveinnent not too important)

Panam had experimented with all this on these airliners in the late 30s to increase the range,
this experience was used by the military during the Second World War.

Now when you take an old carburetor engine
as you have no possibility of making a richness correction, it is certain that if you make him swallow cold air it is as if we opened the pappillon (more air that enters) and also we l '' depleted (the carburetor delivers gasoline according to the volume of air and not the mass, which passes through the venturi, it does not know that it is hot or cold)
If the downstream engine of hot air it is as if we partially closed the valve, therefore loss of power and also we enrich the mixture for the opposite reasons mentioned above
This means that the old engines in winter and summer the fuel ratio is changed, it does not adapt to the filling
engines (electronic) a measurement is made of the air mass and the temperature entering the engine, the ratio is always 14,7 even if the fuel is heated the lambda probe
is there to detect the exhaust gases and corrects it accordingly.
In summary what to compare is to burn 1kg of hot air with the right ratio make the difference between 1 kg cold with the right ratio.

This principle is used in all industrial ovens, we preheat the combustion air to increase the efficiency of the oven we save fuel and we obtain a higher temperature, for an engine what disturbs is the final temperature in end of compression, we are limited so as not to reach self-ignition, and this is where water becomes advantageous in an engine which downstream of air that is too hot.

Andre

[MichelM]

Hello everyone.
I can hardly say better than André!
Find the maximum power (fresh air, optimized filling, etc.; run the engine at high speed of P max)
it is not the same thing as looking for the maximum output (the most km with the minimum of petrol, running the engine at maximum torque, hot air and fuel ...).
For the F1 engine for the qualifications: rich mixture, cold air (40 ° C) and fuel at normal temperature, maximum turbo pressure, P = 1000CV.
Race configuration: poorer mixture, air at 70 ° C, heated fuel etc. P = 620CV.
Michel

[PITMIX]

thanks guys
I have been waiting for this answer for a long time because I no longer understood anything. In the end I would have to send the gases out of the reactor into the air filter to be able to measure their temperatures. So I could know how it works. Engine doping or fuel doping.
So Laurent's clio works with improved power. André's lumina rotates better.

[Woodcutter]

In the evolution of turbocharged engines, the generalization of air exchangers, which make it possible to lower the temperature of the air at the intake, has authorized a drop in consumption ET maximum power gain ...

For me, there is no contradiction between the search for power and yield, one cannot go without the other.

[MichelM]

Yes there were exchangers otherwise the air temperature would have been much higher than 70 ° C. I don't remember exactly anymore but without an exchanger we have to turn at 200 ° C for example, far too much. So the exchangers are essential to go down at least to 70 ° C, to go down to 40 ° C I don't know how they did it (cooling by water? But it's forbidden now).
Michel

[nofy]

Good evening everyone,
Ok, I understood correctly, especially André's explanations which are always very interesting and technical and also Michelm with his explanation "qualif et race"
Regarding my coil for reheating the bubbler, it's a hell of a pain to achieve, but it comes, I found the equipment for a friend plumber.
By the way, it may be irrelevant, but how do you adapt a simple ammeter to measure the temperature of the exhaust, unless I say something stupid, but it seems to me that Guidi was talking about it in a post ( with a thermocouple?), finally excuse me but there I need a little help, because I would like to take the temperatures on the exhaust before cutting everything ...
Nofy (dream)

[PITMIX]

Hello nofy
André uses allumel cromel wire available from radiospare (type K thermocouple wire) 15euro the coil of 10 meters. It is a flexible cable composed of 2 wires of different material. You need the nudes at one end and solder them together. At the other end you plug in a very precise digital voltmeter in millivolts then you convert the values ​​into degrees. However, I don't know the conversion.
Otherwise I bought a thermocouple thermometer 2 probes 39euro at Selectronic. A 300 ° C max probe costs 9 euros there are insulated High temperature probes so as not to burn at 25 euros. I ordered thermocouple type K wire from Radiospare to make other longer probes.