An early explanation of doping in the water?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Other
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by Other » 16/06/06, 04:33

Hi Pits.



This makes me think that if it is possible to obtain something correct with a Pantone reactor, which ultimately is no longer one, it is also possible to obtain it as well other than by going through the reactor
].

Just prove it, or that someone brings results
simple water injection. A lot of experience was made in the years 60 - 70 and the results are low in yield and the dosage even more delicate than the pants, when I speak in my entourage of people of a certain age tell me that DIYers injected water with a catenary in the intake manifold.
Probably it is possible to do the same thing without a reactor, Chambrin did in a different way, we will get there when we have understood what is the nature of what comes out at the end of the reactor pipe when it is operational.


What you forget there is the 100% panton with a little water in the same reactor.

I don't think Panton ever considered water doping
and I did not believe it either, I was much more focused on a fuel in a reactor, as the reactor was assembled I went through the water stage with a small carburetor, I said to myself if it does not work not it will always be time to fuel it, something I tried.
Where I was quite surprised this winter is when I doped with water alcohol mixtures and the performance is better with water, especially since I do not enter alcohol into the consumption calculation. (besides I don't understand it yet)

I am not convinced that Panton knows what is going on in its processes. and everyone focus on the reactor and on the rod, and nobody knows what happens once in the engine, we can just see something and make hypotetic deductions.
it's a bit like concentrating only on the piston and the combustion chamber of an engine, and forgetting the inlet and outlet, a running engine is a whole thing, the same for a reactor.
What poses me problem is the reduction of the engine brake doped with water and that does not bring into play high temperatures, if necessary for the operation of the reactor, (in engine brake the reactor does not receive any more heat) this observation is even more marked on diesel. And that ? in the case, of a descent, doping with water, too cold reactor one does not become a simple injection of droplets, which relieves the effort of compression of the engine, and when one goes up a dimension that becomes again panton?
Since I don't have a long enough mountain to do good tests, just a few km downhill.

For bolt

A simple test, operates a small 100% panton assembly with a rectified steel rod directly placed in the reactor without centralizer and checks the magnetism. (average to good)
Repeat the same test with a steel cable of the same diameter and the same length, checks the magnetism, almost zero, yet a steel cable passes through a magnet coil quite easily.
If you want to experiment on rods and reactors, having a small assembly is essential, on a tractor or a car it's too complicated to make changes

Andre
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 16/06/06, 06:54

Hello
What I think is that the Pantone reactor in its basic use, ie petrol and water passing through the reactor, is one thing. And the Pantone reactor used in water doping is another thing.
Totally different and certainly not comparable.
Certainly there may be similarities between the two systems but certainly not the possibility of applying the operating rules of one on the other.
You also believed that it was possible to compare the effects of the 100% Pantone 125CC to the effects of the water doping of your cars and finally you realize that not.
I think that the magnetism and all the slightly fantastic effects described on the reactor are valid on the 100% Pantone. But doping is another story.
Christophe did a study on a 100% Pantone system and not water doping. Therefore impossible to compare objectively the two phenomena.
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zac
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by zac » 16/06/06, 11:10

Andre wrote:Where I was quite surprised this winter is when I doped with water alcohol mixtures and the performance is better with water, especially since I do not enter alcohol into the consumption calculation. (besides I don't understand it yet)

hi Andrew
beware with the alcohol water mixtures in a doping with water on a diesel, we have no regulation on the pantone; and I am stuck in on cut contact mode balance sheet 2 flamed discs, a set of pads and a big fright (the car is given for 153km / h and I went up to 185 meter).
@+
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laurent.delaon
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by laurent.delaon » 16/06/06, 13:08

Hello,
unlike Pitmix I think that water doping and the real Pantone are exactly the same type of phenomenon simply in water doping the reaction occurs in the combustion chamber with, I think, but without evidence, of better reaction conditions.

besides we see that Saab in the article goes in this direction (the data published by Saab are bogus the units are false ... otherwise how could they hold with a washer fluid reservoir at 0.5l / min? for me it must read ml / h see in their case ml / min and it fits in with my tests)

Lawrence.
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by Christophe » 16/06/06, 13:42

laurent.delaon wrote:besides we see that Saab in the article goes in this direction (the data published by Saab are bogus the units are false ... otherwise how could they hold with a washer fluid reservoir at 0.5l / min? for me it must read ml / h see in their case ml / min and it fits in with my tests)

Lawrence.


No they are real ... the reason is indicated in the article:

"The water consumption seems quite significant given the flows injected but Gillbrand replies that as the injection is done only intermittently, the capacity of this tank is not a real problem."
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laurent.delaon
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by laurent.delaon » 16/06/06, 22:18

Hello,

I stand by what I say! 0.5l / min a 4l tank only lasts
8 minutes c well ca? intermittent or not ...
The units are false. I think it protects their experiments
in this way.
just try to see that this is not realistic
The effects take place around 110km / h for 300ml / h and this up to 160km / h.
With their unit we inject 60 times more water !!

here is what I get by comparing with my tests.
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Other
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by Other » 16/06/06, 22:21

hi Zac

zac wrote:
Andre wrote:Where I was quite surprised this winter is when I doped with water alcohol mixtures and the performance is better with water, especially since I do not enter alcohol into the consumption calculation. (besides I don't understand it yet)

hi Andrew
beware with the alcohol water mixtures in a doping with water on a diesel, we have no regulation on the pantone; and I am stuck in on cut contact mode balance sheet 2 flamed discs, a set of pads and a big fright (the car is given for 153km / h and I went up to 185 meter).
@+


I know on diesel I limit myself to 30% of alcohol to exceed 40% I begin to be worried, hot engine with neutral that can become a disaster.
But on the chevrolet gasoline I will even have 100% with the Lambda probe connected, the correction is supposed to be done, the alcohol fuel should normally tell the injector to be balanced, with mixtures 50% alcohol on gasoline engine I do not Did not find an advantage on a 100% water, just that it prevents me from freezing in the cold in winter, although I was surprised it made ice on the nozzle of the carburetor and even often it clogged the nozzle, that's why when I read on the net, a simple mixture of alcohol and water makes it possible to walk in winter! I am skeptical, putting alcohol and water in a bubbler is not better, after a 40km of driving, there is nothing but water in the bubbler and a night of rest everything is in ice of a bread.
The simplest method is to put kidney water, let it freeze as the bubbler is heated with an exhaust system it thaws alone it takes just a few km more ..

As I plan to do a potato oil vapor doping,
The lower quality which is harder to filter,
There are so many that we no longer know where to store it, we must hurry to pick up the empty tanks of 1000 liters before the boat guys take them to make the docks.

I think that to play carefully you have to install a shutter in the admission.
diesel just in case the engine takes a bite.
Some machines have this system controlled with a dash in the cabin.

Andre
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 16/06/06, 23:47

hi Andrew
In my job I use a refractometer to measure the freezing point of heat transfer fluids such as glycol, monocol and others.
It is not uncommon to obtain alcohol percentages of 30% to have a freezing point at -16 or -18 ° C. In your country where it can be much colder than that, it doesn't surprise me that the water freezes with 30 or 40% alcohol. And even if it does not freeze in the tank, at -10 ° C for example, when it is sprayed by the water carburetor, the nozzle clogs instantly.
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silicon
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you have to believe it for it to work!




by silicon » 26/06/06, 17:08

Pantone, we have to believe that it works!
I heard this opinion of a retired engineer.
I share it and I like to remain skeptical (and yet I am fully into other much more esoteric research).
I admit that there are uncontrolled physico-chemical effects, which cannot be controlled by small amateur means.
We talk a lot about plasma, electric charge, magnetism ...
So why has no one yet made a reactor with a quartz window to analyze the emission spectrum of the plasma, and isolated pads to measure the potential along the tube?
And that becomes the engine after a few thousand kilometers? Why nobody talks to analyze, even visually, the cylinders, piston rings ...? And analyze the exhaust?
In my opinion because it bothers to stop dreaming ...
Pantone is first of all a ghost that feeds on gullibility.
I also suspect (as around many inventions that bother big interests) that sociopaths are paid to spread false information by drowning it in the truth using keywords that make it very scientific. If I were CEO of an automobile or oil group I would not hesitate to
to do to protect my interests is a much less risky and cheaper preventive action than buying a patent to make it disappear or "committing suicide" of an inventor who begins to market his invention.
All those who invest time, materials, machine tools, to content themselves with fantasizing about forums... it's a waste !
Pantone was tried for scam. There remains the intellectual scam with a phenomenon of mental self-manipulation in cyber-group (I know what it is, I believed in it at the beginning). If he had been smarter he would have succeeded as a sect guru.
So if you want to face reality, let's gather a few tens of thousands of euros in order to equip like the pros, a measurement bench on embedded PC with acquisition cards, probes, sensors, actuators ( solenoid valves etc ...) a reactor surrounded by probes is mounted on a recent car and road tests are carried out. We can then do a modeling and design a calculator, or conclude that the car has compressed air pollutes less and put everything in the trash (except the PC that I recover :-)
I am a professor of electronics and passionate about computers, especially in terms of hardware, at your disposal.
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Other
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by Other » 26/06/06, 18:01

Hello germanium

So if you want to face reality, let's gather a few tens of thousands of euros in order to equip like the pros, a measurement bench on embedded PC with acquisition cards, probes, sensors, actuators ( solenoid valves etc ...) a reactor surrounded by probes is mounted on a recent car and road tests are carried out.


There you are wandering if you want to understand and see something with a panton, you make the wrong choice by a car, it's the worst engine to do tests ... unless you find a car that has too small engine for its size., and you overuse it.
Take a diesel engine generator and shoulder it at the end, pull everything it can give and you won't need an arsenal of instruments to realize it.
I learned almost everything on the pants with a small engine on a generator, on the cars I rather disenchanted and I spent a large part of my time wanting to run the reactor with a light engine.
To denigrate everything as you do .. there is a margin, I think that I am not mazo and not nono to insist in this way and to make assemblies on other engine, if there was no results it will be a long time since I have moved on.
And if it was nothing but the economic side I would simply walk with 100% fried potato oil (free)
It takes me more than I believe before I do something.
I first run a small engine before I get into a car, the difficulty is precisely in a car that drives around town like everyone else.
Even if the economy is weak in town, the engine oil is still yellow after 8000 km the candles are like milk.
Let's say that I never talked about plasma and anything esoteric, I measure I note, When to Mr. Panton he can say what he wants, it's been a long time since I no longer rely on these theories, I m 'just press the tests and some information that others have to try, which I check.


Andre
Now what you offer, I am convinced with all the hype of the journalists that the big manufacturers have tried this in a rigorous way and across the board. probably in their binder they have another way to get to the same result and probably better, so that it does not interest them. We are not the little funny do-it-yourselfers who can manage to carry out tests as elaborate as these large laboratories.

Before going down the system does a little assembly, it takes a few dollars and a few days, not to believe but to see, and measure ...
Many things have been said on the internet, however I am still skeptical it is only after trying that I decide.


Andre
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