To all those who have experienced the water doping

[Other]

Hello,
It would interesssant to know in what condition the pantone doping perfome water well or not at all.
I appeal to those who have happened has good results on a specific test and then it deteriorates, it would be good if we talk about our observations, even if it seems trivial one is often confronted with the same problems
Recently I realized that the reactor was inoperative cold, not because the reactor is cold but because the air that the downstream engine is cold, even worse when it is very cold the output of the reactor is hotter than in summer?
This summer I removed the suction of the hot air inlet of the reactor,
too hot it less performais
I also noticed that the panton is éfficace on low engine revolution 2000 Rpm less.
on the little ones. it is ineffective and even I would say it slightly increases consumption.
It is éfficace when the engine pulls this is to say that it would take vehicles with a ratio (bridge) more
I tested with larger wheels and it is better, (I would need a (differrentiel more)
A bubbler is a carburetor éfficace
A bubbler is a bubbler air compares to escape?
Currently I test a mixed bubbler little exhaust and air.
A bubbler under high vacuum, versus a bubbler under low depression? establish good depression.
it is best to consume little water as well fine to him consomer many large drops of water or the efficiency of the filter in the top of the bubbler.
Those who Experienced a (reactor) too hot, too hot or rather a bubbler what's findings
The problem with doping panton has water sometimes it works well and sometimes it does not work anymore, it'll take the observation and communication on the findings for that one arrives to isolate what works and what does not work
Example several mounted on tractors SPAD many have good results and no other results, it would interssant see what has differrent this can not be the way it is mounted as they are built all the same way,
I do not think it's had only a motor design.
Doping has water and éfficace on diesel engines high compression, though the reactor is cooler.
A large reactor rod 40mm and also éfficace several very small 3mm see even rod made in these small diameters.
A constriction on the admission of a diesel engine normally results in a loss of power, yet with a doping water the engine tolerates a reduction of 25% without anyone finding a big differrence on power.

It is interesting that those who do not obtain results
face from their experiences there as much to learn with those who march. Looks like there's a gene that it does not work, anyone doing experiments know, there a lot of failure for few results, and often it does not work for small oversights things considered unimportant, simply put together a great series engine and be neglecting the setting and it does not tread.

Personally, if I had not had in Company results doping water this summer I aurrai changed processes, but what bothers me is that I can not repeat the same results at EVERY tests, j 'I succeeds in making some travel 400km and consumes less 6,45 liters of diesel with a cylinder capacity liters 3
I repeat this test several times that remains in these values, but on smaller trips of less 100km and I can not have those numbers this varies from a 7,5 8 liters, yet I drive slower. On arrival of the fall as soon as the temperature has fallen below the 15c finished the good results is the 9 liters as before no reactor.
We are missing some details for this FUNCTIONAL has suddenly ..

Andre

[Cuicui]

Thank you Andre for these thoughts that cause the problem. Beginners (including myself) sometimes believe that over the reactor is hot or more swallows of water, and the better it works, as is sometimes the opposite.
As you say well
- The operation of a reactor Pantone follows precise rules that for now we do not yet know well (but your experiments did much to clear the problem)
- Failures often bring more instructive than successes. This is why it is important that those who made the report attempts.
Toftof thank you to you, you have to tone active a fantastic achievement and a failure now we do not understand yet, but that will help us all to advance the schmilblick.

[toftof]

yes cuicui than past Temp and unsuccessful experience now it will faloir it works or why it says. Basically even though I still believe, I do not understand why shod fuel savings knowing that I let a hand accelerator 2000 rpm So, I open the outlet of the pump has the same injection flow .. .

good eve
christophe

[Other]

Hello Totof
The position of the accelerator is only approximate on the consomation, certe it is a clue but not exact, I had to install
linear potentiometer on the Mercedes (variable resitance that tells me with precision the position of the accelerator on a digital display in the car)
But after the accelerator in the pump there is a centrifugal governor (for Bosch pumps and many other) that distorts the position,
For gasoline engines is the depression in the manifold that has been the reference for many years ..
I think when you're used to driving on a vehicle's driving experience tells us more and transcripts of consomation, has worked equally and the same climate.
When I test differrentes propellers on a plane (sometimes 4 the same day) I made the same day in the same atmospheric conditions, it is true that one can not compare a panton.
Air affect more aircraft.
So, at the beginning, there must be a noticeable difference and that it is felt in the driving, then the small variations are more difficult to detect.
In your editing large pipe have you given the size of the ducts before and after the reactor the reactor, it is necessary that the section of these conduits is clearly superior to the strip distance rod and tube, so that the high speed restriction be done
between the rod and the reactor,
To the reactor operation must speed between rod and tube
the opposite of a heat exchanger.
In my case for a 19 rod I put a pipe 3 / 4 pipe
copper (which is found to be twice the normally leads to a 12,7mm rod).

I am waiting for a very cold day to go on a test trip consomation.
like us updated of your tests

Andre

[PITMIX]

Hello
Sorry I'm just fly over what has been said here, but I had had the same idea about the problems and solutions for the Pantone reactor in water doping. We certainly poura make a kind of manual or manufacturing guide featuring our various mounting confrontation and making a synthesis of all this.
My reactor is easy to manufacture with D1 tube / 2 "steel 35 cm long steel rod diam 12mm and 15cm long. All this set against the direction of the exhaust to the interior of the tube just after the collector. The 1400CC gasoline engine is a dual carburetor body.
I use a carburetor water homemade kind venturi 4mm dia. with water injection by a 0,8mm internal dia tube.
I turn the water injection by a manually controlled solenoid and the adjustment of the water flow that fact with a manual valve (soon a very precise speed reducer).

I tested the car with too much water suction flow of water open to 100 15% and too cold ° C and more I drove 40km / h.
The temperature of the reactor output fall 150 60 ° ° in seconds and it's like driving a steam engine. Do not try
I'm currently testing a system with the minimum of water drips. The water is warm in 80 ° C. My measurements may be wrong because the car can run at slow continuing to inject water without disturbance slows. This makes me think that the reactor sucks water vapor so over 100 ° C. Moreover the output reactor rises to 220 ° C even in injecting water traveling at 120km / h.
You should know that with water 15 ° C even slows little injected water causes a change of the engine speed. And 120km / h output reactor to fall slightly 100 ° C even less. That's what makes me think of water vapor.
Since the assembly of the reactor and the engine tuning, I noticed some flexibility in the city and more punch on the highway to double. But I think it's due to the changes in the fuel economy. Conversely, in case of too much water injection, the engine pulls less and the car stalls to slow down if you do not stop the water long before releasing the accelerator.
That's what I can say today on the reactor.
I am a novice and I am learning on the job through testing and forums.
It only needs the intervention of little guys like "Asguard bone tyr" or "Guidi" and others who have the results with their reactor and evidence to support. Your experiences will be beneficial to the progress of this and the development of our fixtures.
Goods.

[lau]

Always test on old trapadelles !! How effective is the pantone of new vehicle?
Why do some vehicles stall they idle?
André, have you tried a water doping on your aircraft?
The temperature differences throughout the year seem to give you a hard time ..
I will soon jump into the water with my main vehicle, I hope I will not have to regret it.
Thank you all for your advice

[Other]

Hello,
For doping the water on a gasoline engine, especially if it enters the intake manifold, slow it's on, it will generate problems, besides the engine does not produce heat and depression is a its maximum so it takes a large amount of air and steam (if the bubbler),
It is absolutely a system to cut this entry from panton idling is against productive utilser a panton has this diet, do not do test polution or consomation idling.
The best is to put a little damper on comande throttle to close completely the entrance of the bubbler slowed.
For engines big cylindered, if you want a good depression must be entered in the normal walking in the intake manifold is opened barely pappillon
For small engines can be entered after the air filter, this rule the problem of idling in normal operating these engines are therefore requested the open butterfly 3 / 4 provides a good depression (wide open throttle depression and substantially equal in front or backward)
like a diesel
Now we must always keep in ésprit a reactor panton on only when the engine is under a certain load,
and when in low load persist in wanting to put the panton in the circuit that translates a surconsomation.
(Diesel for use in low speed does not vary the consomation but does not produce either gain)
The greater part of people use their car in the traffic decelleration idling 60kmh in town ect ... nothing good
Examine see the ERG valve on a car, you will see that have a similar problem is utiolse in very specific condition and is quite close to that of panton,
On the buick ERGvalve is differrentielle with 2 sizes hole for escape, as the engine speed ..
I sometimes wonder if I used this command with a valve to control the panton.
In terms of '' my aircraft, '' I have just one and it takes all my little changes for the nourishment of a it is enough entrenir and has to live, it would be the ideal engine for this, more of 6 liters of cubic capacity, 125mm piston, there are still many parameters to adjust, carburetor or bubbler entrance panton in a rather delicate venturi calculate not ocassionner pressure drop (we need the power to lift-off)
Since this is a job no return, it has to work the first time, so one think twice before embarking on such an adventure .....

Andre

[PITMIX]

Hello and happy new year to all of you
LAU when you talk to mount it on a new or very recent, that's fine. You just put it in mind that what we faisont here is DIY. I grant you certain assemblies resemble the original fixtures. But the beauty of the realization has nothing to do with the efficacitée system. It tinkers on our old cars because they pollute and consume too (not for everyone). If we manage to get good results in the conditions that André has just described is then tests to improve the system to use it more often, quickly and easily as possible.
Then when the thing will be to the point I think it will be boring to mount on new cars. That's why we want as industrial if interressent. It will avoid empirical research on our old guinbardes.
Imagine the disappointment that was when modifying a car for hours and that one does not result. If more is done on a new car, it's a double disappointment.
If you absolutely want to modify your recent and main car do it. But you have no right to the error. The current carburettor system is also to be taken into account.
Or you buy a new mower ...
A word yet Ciao and good year.

[jkg]

Hello and good year,
During your walks in winter, you had noticed a drop in temperature of the reactor.

If this is the case ca come from moisture in the air, you send too much water in the reactor and drowned.

Zac told to ride in the rain without water supply, we should perhaps try this winter?

@+

[lau]

Thank you Pitmix and André for your advice.

pitmix my utility box 8 years old and 145000 km, the head 8l / 100; no turbo or electronic, conventional diesel but 2,4lde cyl, low rpm torque tractor ... a large square made expressly for Pantone by Toyota !!
Always a smooth ride at low revs, winding roads, an engine that strength sometimes when I stuff the pickup ... everything is conducive to pantone!
I am equipped and have room to work as I have a job to bow, I can free up time to devote to this work without problème..avoue it would be a shame?
I would start when I would have built in my head after that will be good (I have never seen in real installation).
The only downside, the installation will not be approved but I at least I do not roll with oil or red.I saw about it on the forum that if the power is not changed to the level of 10% extra, no problem, especially as the security is not affected. Go see the drivers of old vintage cars, they are "tolerated".