Doping water Motor: thermodynamic

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 27/03/09, 15:16

Capt_Maloche wrote:I understand myself :D

the idea is to reach the T° of the Thermolysis of water, in any case it is the idea


Christophe wrote:Thermolysis you reach it but at high load only ...

But according to me, it's not on the admission T° that you have to act... but, for example, on:

a) wealth,
b) injection advance
c) type (sequential or continuous) and duration of injection.

But this is very difficult (impossible?) to do without doing anything without heavy lab equipment...

With the HCCI on the contrary, the manufacturers seek to reduce the T° of flame/combustion (anti-nox): https://www.econologie.com/motorisations ... -3717.html

Doping with water will have very little chance of working on these new generation engines...

On the other hand, on the Hdi dci and other sdi, the combustion T° is higher than on the older generations: the potential for gain is therefore there...despite everything claimed by the detractors who have never thought further than the end from their nose...

Another idea would have been to inject pure oxygen into the engine:
d) increase of% O2 in the combustion air

O2 can be extracted from the air by gaseous permeation...at 25% O2, the combustion T° is already greatly increased...but water injection management must be reliable flawless.

I should make a clearly visible topo above one of these 4...because we are doing the "advertisement" of ffi...


Christophe wrote:Condensing the escapement have thousands of patents but nothing effective in the field.

In this regard, you will read the 1st patent of this list

It's the same Olivier with whom I "worked" on the famous pantone ZX...and filed the other patent on the list (in the public domain since).
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by Did67 » 27/03/09, 15:50

Christophe wrote:Now, paranoid mode, maybe all the diesel sold is aquazole...


May the paranoids have a good weekend: aquazole is - or was? - an emulsion. The product has - or had - a milky appearance.

To find out how to stabilize such an emulsion, I suggest you ask... the cows! Milk is nothing else (a mixture very rich in water and very low in Fat; well, it is true, not so stable - the cream rises to the surface).

I think the problem was the question of stability, water being deadly for injection pumps!
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by Christophe » 27/03/09, 16:03

Yes and no, white diesel does exist and that's it:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/le-gasoil- ... t1234.html
Also called GECAM: https://www.econologie.com/forums/carte-de-l ... t5978.html

It is an Italian product I believe.

I've never read that the aquasol was whitish though...

Otherwise yes for stability, I have always heard and read the same...
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by Other » 27/03/09, 19:51

Hello

Image

in terms of relaxation lying down with water doping it may look like this ..
but that doesn't explain why
the engine brake has decreased (less effort in the compression cycle or better restitution of the compression? (since the diesel injection is weak, and the engine swallows a little humid air)
This does not explain why the engine becomes less knocky Noisy mass combustion after injection into a reduced chamber space.


In water doping Water is introduced before the compression cycle
the final pressure at the end of compression should be less
according to the quantity and the state of the drops of liquid
The Brutal pressure rise curve after injection should not be as sharp and as high
the trigger should approach the pure diesel cycle

When you work with 100% vegetable oil, the gains are proportional to the diesel or the oil. With diesel, the absolute gains are greater than with vegetable oil, the engine cleaning part is strongly to be considered for running on vegetable oil

The differences in performance certainly have an explanation, and I don't think it's linked exclusively to the design of the reactor, but rather to the dosage and the state of droplets or vapor and the temperature of what enters the engine.

Andre
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by Did67 » 04/04/09, 12:05

Christophe wrote:
I've never read that the aquasol was whitish though...

...


You're going to make me doubt! It was a "visual memory" of a report seen in its time on the buses of I do not know which city which tested the aquazole, when it came out. So it's dated!
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by elephant » 05/06/09, 11:20

Basically, should we start managing the injection of steam as we manage the injection of fuel?
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by Capt_Maloche » 05/06/09, 11:38

You've understood everything ! :D

do you have Free? : Cheesy:
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by elephant » 05/06/09, 18:33

There is still something that bothers me: I read somewhere on one of the forums econology that the steam should not be too hot (70°).
Don't ask me who said that, it's been a few months already.
Is it founded?
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by Other » 05/06/09, 19:45

Hello

elephant wrote:There is still something that bothers me: I read somewhere on one of the forums econology that the steam should not be too hot (70°).
Don't ask me who said that, it's been a few months already.
Is it founded?


the story of water boiling, comes from the first sealed bubblers
when the water rises to 100c there is a pressure and an excess of steam enters the reactor which ends up drowning it

With a bubbler (ventilated) it does not bother to bring the water to a boil, any more than when using a GV, or a spray on a hot exhaust point
anyway, given the length of the bubbler pipes to the reactor, it rarely enters 100c in the reactor.

When I read that some recommend very precise temperatures to within one degree, I am very skeptical, I did not notice any great variances in performance by modifying the reactor inlet temperatures, Even though I eliminated the temperature sensor on reactor inlet

And I don't think that growers on their tractor put temperature controls on the bubbler..

There are those who specialize in making the water doping system mysterious and complicated when in reality it is disconcertingly simple.
The poor performance noticed by certain assemblies is mainly due to the use they have made, on small urban routes it is not worth measuring, a meager 10%


Andre
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by elephant » 05/06/09, 20:40

Thank you André, we missed you (I admit that I don't frequent the "pantone and Co" topics
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