electric car and transport, the point 2010 start

Cars, buses, bicycles, electric airplanes: all electric transportation that exist. Conversion, engines and electric drives for transport ...
Christophe
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by Christophe » 22/02/10, 00:05

Ah, the price is sure it is not rosy ...

But imagine this:

Take a Ligier, have it electrified by a large manufacturer and you get a light electric car for the city and short trips to less than € 7000 public price WITHOUT SUBSIDY ... therefore € 2000 with the bonus of € 5000!

7000 € they can do it for a Logan of more than 1 Tonne of materials with a complex thermal engine ... and they would not be able to do it for a light EV? Do not take us for cons ...

The debate of the electric car is more POLITICAL than TECHNOLOGICAL ...

ps: when I said 2nd it was precisely so as not to ask too much of the electric car (vacation, longer trip ...) ... but it requires having to make 2 cars per household ...
Last edited by Christophe the 22 / 02 / 10, 00: 10, 1 edited once.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 22/02/10, 00:10

Gébé wrote:
citro wrote:Anyway, the first users will not make this purchase to go on vacation ... Let's be serious.
Yes, and that’s why it’s not developing your electric car, because it is far from providing the same service as conventional models, that consumers find that the game is simply not worth the cost. candle, even with a bonus of € 5000 from the conspiratorial State *, because they have the means to have a higher standard of living in terms of energy consumption for transport.
You would not make a good "expert" ... You would say, surely that 2 wheels cannot become an alternative to the automobile and to the problems of traffic jams and household budgets ... As a result, 2 wheels no 'have no commercial future, no more than the 3-wheel MP3 piaggio type (at 8.000 € anyway and without subsidies) ...
:? It is sure unstable vehicles, without bodywork do not provide the same service as an automobile, a TRUE.
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by bernardd » 22/02/10, 00:35

Sorry, not understood the detail of the power of the batteries on the 106:

1- for a 120V - 100AH ​​battery, 100Ah is it the integration of the current until total discharge (= kills the battery) or is it the integration of current actually usable? In the first case, what energy is actually usable?

2- Assuming that 120Vx100Ah is indeed the usable power restored by the battery, it is indeed the power leaving the battery, ie transported in the battery. But taking into account the loading losses, it took more energy to charge it, didn't it?

3- I did not understand what was the real autonomy of this 106 ...
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by holowman » 22/02/10, 05:51

Gébé wrote:
We're not about to go on vacation with electric cars : Lol: : Lol:

It is idiotic to say that, because if there were no petrol stations on the highway, how many motorists would not make half the journey from Paris to Marseille? Now precisely, what happens is that no government has ever given a chance to the electric, no company has ever invested in charging stations or exchange of batteries,

http://www.cea.fr/le_cea/actualites/bat ... oble-22423 (see the video ;) )

And now it becomes possible thanks to the change of opinion; by the end of 2012 the state, the banks, and a joint venture called BetterPlace will achieve this. Thousands of charging stations all over the country.

http://www.enviro2b.com/2010/01/27/bett ... de-demain/

In addition, technically there are certain electric vehicles capable of covering more than 450 kilometers on a single charge.

http://www.leblogauto.com/2009/10/tesla ... nomie.html

Not to mention that on my previous post I deliver the future of the electric battery, rechargeable in less than 5 minutes. And with charging stations everywhere, the problem of autonomy is over ...

http://www.zdnet.fr/actualites/informat ... 794,00.htm
Do not be pessimistic, technology advances, with or without you. The car of tomorrow is and will be electric.
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by pb2488 » 22/02/10, 07:01

citro wrote:I do not understand your "demonstration" and you refute my argument.

This is not my demonstration but that of independent scientists and environmental activist in addition ... It is true that I flesh it out with a few other arguments that you never come across either (subsidized oil in certain countries, premium 5000 €, efficiency of thermals which improve, energy independence, etc, etc ...)
But what is your argument? You sort your arguments according to the conclusion you want to reach. Put aside the scientific arguments such as those of Langlois or Janco, it's still pretty strong !!!
What are the facts you are talking about: In people who drive electric today and we manage to adapt, so what? What can we conclude from this? a minority manage to live without eating meat and think that this is the solution and for as much is there a plot of the lobby of the pork butchers to impose on the vast majority another model ....
How many cars do you own in your household? Is it really ecological?
In short, you have to think a little more global and detach from your ideal and your personal experience to reach a conclusion on such a subject I think ...
Last figure read: source ADEME (I'm sure you will also challenge them), the electric car in China will make on average 253 gCO2 / km or more than the Porsche 911, coal requires. Where's the panacea in there?
The problem is not political, simply because it could not be on a global scale given the diverging interests and geopolitical situations and if not why at the level of France for example, the government has set up a bonus bonus, a bonus of 5000 € and subsidizes the development ... !!!!
The problem, as described by Janco or Langlois is technological but also economic in the sense:
https://www.econologie.com/voiture-a-1l-aux-100km-telechargement-4142.html
"To see, review and review ... to understand each of his words!
He gives "the key" to all evil ... "

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by bamboo » 22/02/10, 10:33

citro wrote:YES. The Prius is the worst hybrid architecture imaginable. : Evil:
A Series Hybrid vehicle that can be compared to an electric car equipped with an on-board generator is much less "gas factory" than any current car, if only by removing the gearbox. of speed...

The prius does not have a gearbox : Cheesy:

More seriously, I have been asking myself a question for quite some time about the series hybrid.
I understand that the principle is simpler. However, here is the downside I suspect:
A series hybrid must have 2 types of equivalent power propulsion (I'm not talking about 2 motors because in the case of wheel motors, we will have 2 electric motors + 1 thermal)

This means that if you want to replace 1 heat engine of 70hp, you must have
- 1 group of 70hp electric motors
- AND 1 heat engine of 70hp
This therefore increases the weight significantly (I imagine)
The advantage of parallel hybrids is that the electric motor and the heat engine are both smaller:
- The electric is tiny since 'it only serves assistance, no independent propellant mode.
- the thermal is not necessarily large since it is assisted in the event of increased power demand (eg the Prius II was only 1500cm3).

That said, the removable generator is nickel in the sense that it increases the weight only when needed.
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by I Citro » 22/02/10, 11:13

indy49 wrote:
citro wrote:YES. The Prius is the worst hybrid architecture imaginable. : Evil:
A Series Hybrid vehicle that can be compared to an electric car equipped with an on-board generator is much less "gas factory" than any current car, if only by removing the gearbox. of speed...

The prius does not have a gearbox : Cheesy:
Oh yes, and a continuously variable gearbox ... If the concept is interesting, the weight and complexity are high ...

The advantage of switching to series hybrid is to further optimize the use of the heat engine.

The 1500cm3 of the Prius are still demeusured, while 500 to 1000 cm3 would be enough = gain in consumption, in weight, in size ...
Let's enter the virtuous spiral dear to our friend Michel Kieffer : Mrgreen:
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by oiseautempete » 22/02/10, 11:28

citro wrote:
The prius does not have a gearbox : Cheesy:
================================
Oh yes, and a continuously variable gearbox ... If the concept is interesting, the weight and complexity are high ...



The 1500cm3 of the Prius are still demeusured, while 500 to 1000 cm3 would be enough = gain in consumption, in weight, in size ...


The transmission of the Prius is extremely simple, it is based on the variable differential speed between the heat engine and the electric motor, it is also used on most modern agricultural tractors ... Its output is very superior to all other automatic transmissions (except sequential) ...
1500cc with an atmospheric gasoline engine is not delusional and it is very much below what is done on a non-hybrid car of the same size: to descend below it would be necessary to use a supercharging ... but 500cc for a car of this size, stop smoking the carpet ... unless you type in an MCE-5 or ... a Wankel : Cheesy:
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by bamboo » 22/02/10, 11:36

citro wrote:
indy49 wrote:
citro wrote:YES. The Prius is the worst hybrid architecture imaginable. : Evil:
A Series Hybrid vehicle that can be compared to an electric car equipped with an on-board generator is much less "gas factory" than any current car, if only by removing the gearbox. of speed...

The prius does not have a gearbox : Cheesy:
Oh yes, and a continuously variable gearbox ... If the concept is interesting, the weight and complexity are high ...


Not quite: it is continuously variable only by feeling, but technically, it is a planetary train ( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_%C3%A9picyclo%C3%AFdal), much more efficient in terms of energy.

citro wrote:The advantage of switching to series hybrid is to further optimize the use of the heat engine.

The 1500cm3 of the Prius are still demeusured, while 500 to 1000 cm3 would be enough = gain in consumption, in weight, in size ...
Let's enter the virtuous spiral dear to our friend Michel Kieffer : Mrgreen:

OK for the virtuous spiral, but currently, for a car of this category, we never see such engines.

I try to compare equivalent things.
So to replace a 500cc engine with series hybrid, you would need a large electric motor AND a 3cc thermal.
Perhaps it is compensated by the simpler transmission (I do not know the weight of a differential (it must be light) or the planetary gear (but clearly, manual or automatic gearboxes, it must do its weight )
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by I Citro » 22/02/10, 11:38

pb2488 wrote:What are the facts you are talking about: In people who drive electric today and we manage to adapt, so what?
No, I talked about people who have driven hundreds of electric vehicles for 25 years, developed standard and fast charging networks ... In short, created and operates a microcosm of electric transport and travel that circulate in the midst of thermal vehicles WITHOUT NOTICE ... It works and demonstrates that the system IS SUSTAINABLE.
pb2488 wrote:In short, you have to think a little more global and detach from your ideal and your personal experience to reach a conclusion on such a subject I think ...
Last figure read: ADEME source (I'm sure you will also challenge them), the electric car in China will average 253 gCO2 / km
I think I am thinking globally, but in addition I rely on my experience and my knowledge of the important experience accumulated on Bordeaux ... These last 2 points are unknown to the experts you quote, instead, they argue THEIR own prejudices who join the ones I had myself less than a year ago, the ones you too have today by refusing to admit that it works differently.

I ABSOLUTELY do NOT dispute the figures you are announcing, I know them as well as the US figures which are also very high, I think Janco is talking about them.
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