electric car and transport, wire news

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Janic
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Janic » 13/11/23, 20:50

phil
The EV, in the city, would be a good solution for the pollution, and noise pollution, that you forget.
If you read what I wrote, it is indeed in cities that the EV is justified and on small vehicles.
But, that goes against the grain.
Indeed, it is even the automobile itself which is not worth its justification in medium and large cities where public transport cannot justify it.
Concerning the regenerative brake, for a very long time, before the EV, I let off the accelerator to enter the city between 50 and 60, and in EV, just like that, you recover energy, you don't just save it , as in VT.
On a course, by anticipating all the decelerations, so as not to touch the brake, you recover a lot.
Except that at low speeds, 50/60, recovery should be minimal if economical driving limits it as much as possible.
So a minimal saving (for the moment only) not justifying the additional purchase cost without taking into account the premiums which maintain an artificial market and which will disappear and the cost of the electric KW is increasing. And it will also be necessary to take into account the significant taxes on fuel which will have to be carried over to the replacement EV.
You can see that you are talking about the EV, without knowing it.
It's true, but I have a few years as a professional in the automotive field in BE and where the EV changes nothing to the rest of the vehicle which must be reinforced to support the additional permanent loads of EVs.
As I said, I would like to hear that you eat a little more tires, it's not at all impossible, but the question is how much.
1%, 10%, 20%?
The answer was provided in this video where the cost increases from simple to double for 100.000 km according to the figures indicated. All you had to do was check this one out.
My kona has 204 hp, it's rear-wheel drive, and the rear tires have over 80 km.
Our cases in VE are very far from being isolated cases.
Far from being isolated? Only sufficient global statistics can provide an answer.
What are the conditions?
80% of French people never exceed 300 km, and I no longer have in mind those who only do 100 km max.
I had already published the figures, with their official source, not "they say that"!, or I think that...
Alright ! So follow your reasoning to the end, not only according to the current situation, but soon extended to the entire earth, which for the moment is seriously lacking, given the low number of EVs.
Comfort with a small EV will be the same as with a small VT.
All these arguments that you give do not hold water, because you have "old" ideas about EVs.
These arguments are not mine, but those of the author of this video who cites professional organizations with reference value.
Tires, you are probably right, it is possible, but I come back to quantification.
And I wonder, if that doesn't cancel out, with the fact that you practically don't brake, and therefore less wear of pads, discs, which will last 500 km
Wear replaced by that of the recuperators requested as replacement such as an alternator.
The cost of fuel per km, even with an expensive EV, remains lower than that of a VT.
Virtually no maintenance.
Overall, it doesn't seem like this is actually the case!
I remind you that I did, (it's not good), my first service of the kona, at more than 70 km, because it had been the victim of a refusal of priority, otherwise it was at 000 , which I would have done, to see!
Nothing special about that. With a thermal vehicle of more than 200.000 km and currently at more than 260.000 km I have not had any particular costs and on a diesel of one of my grandchildren with more than 300.000 km the only costs were a change of alternator. It's not about the vehicle but the way it's driven.
In addition, whatever people say, it is better than a VT in terms of pollution, even if it is not neutral, it is not necessarily the solution, but it is not a stopgap!
Only if we ONLY take into account that of the use of an EV, not its overall pollution from the source (materials, transformation, transport, recycling, etc.) to its end of life.
Battery recycling is taking place, little by little, as for copper, it has been recycled very well, for a very long time.
It is not, for the moment, a question of recycling but of production volume on a global scale and the increasingly frequent thefts clearly show the direction of the market where this copper is worth “gold”
In short, I like driving the EV!
That's just a choice for pleasure, which has nothing to do with industrialization itself.
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phil59
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by phil59 » 13/11/23, 22:10

Janic wrote:The answer was provided in this video where the cost increases from simple to double for 100.000 km according to the figures indicated. All you had to do was check this one out.

So I'll just answer that, because what you're announcing is huge!

So, my tires currently have 80 km, and are not worn out yet. We are going to assume that they will still last, but, ignore that, and say that they are dead, so that would mean that on a thermal Kona, the tires would last at least 000 km?

Is this a supported answer, or fair, I say?
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Remundo » 13/11/23, 22:25

EV tires wear (a little) less because they are generally large and EV driving is smoother. That said, as EVs are generally heavier than VTs, studies have shown that they emit more tire/road particles than VTs.

With my GTE I have tires that also reach around 70 km, but I scrape them in roundabouts, because I maintain maximum speed.

Besides, we talk about ecology, but roundabouts are incredible energy burners.

So of course they make traffic flow at intersections more fluid and provide security.

But you should not have the habit of creating roundabouts everywhere, some are not justified and reduce the speed of vehicles for nothing. On a VT, this is catastrophic because dissipative braking followed by restarting eats up energy twice.
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Forhorse » 13/11/23, 22:41

Remundo wrote:
But you should not have the habit of creating roundabouts everywhere, some are not justified and reduce the speed of vehicles for nothing. On a VT, this is catastrophic because dissipative braking followed by restarting eats up energy twice.


Same opinion on roundabouts, it's ecological nonsense and unfortunately they are popping up everywhere.
And again, here we are talking about light vehicles, but on heavy goods vehicles it is worse.
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by phil59 » 13/11/23, 23:17

Even if they are not the same vehicle, I am making a comparison between a Dacia Sandero and Spring.

https://www.dacia.fr/gamme-electrique-e ... tions.html

WLTP mixed cycle autonomy in km (depending on equipment)
230 km
26.8 kWh battery

Consumption at the wheel 26.8/230= 11.65
Poor charging efficiency, +25%, I round up to 15 kWh/100 km. (pessimistic)

https://www.dacia.fr/gamme-vehicules/sa ... tions.html

Consumption 5.3L/100 km (at best)

I start from there to estimate the fuel cost.

I looked, in Le Havre, at the average price today of the sp95, €1.85, and took the consumption of 5.3L/100km.

I priced a rate of 0.18€ per kWh, initially, HP/HC rate, then 0.11€, for the tempo rate, "blue" day.

sandero spring.JPG
sandero spring.JPG (90.04 KiB) Viewed 239 times


The price difference between the 2 cars is 3810€, the spring therefore costs 3810 more, starting version.

On 150 km, we save almost €000, for 7000 km/year, that's 15 years.

I will not insist on the fact that we can do this in part, and not depend on oil groups...

With the tempo rate, where most of the time, we are on the blue rate, which is less than 11 cents per kWh, in 250 km, we earn €000, or more than the price of the car, the car becomes so free!

Finally, if I did my paintings correctly, "foggy" for 2 days...

This is just to give an idea, without taking into account the rest, just the difference in fuel prices.
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Remundo » 14/11/23, 00:57

It’s true that the night rate of 11 c€/kWh is interesting for those who charge a lot.

On the other hand, it's not very eco-friendly... at night, we have a lot of nuclear power as a % of the electricity mix. Unless the wind blows.
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Janic
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Janic » 14/11/23, 08:23

phil
So I'll just answer that, because what you're announcing is huge!
So, my tires currently have 80 km, and are not worn out yet. We are going to assume that they will still last, but, ignore that, and say that they are dead, so that would mean that on a thermal Kona, the tires would last at least 000 km?
Is this a supported answer, or fair, I say?
It’s just complete nonsense!
The lifespan of a tire depends on the load AND driving as much as its initial quality, hence the first prices for faster wear, as well as travel locations such as mountains or highways. Hence the stats which can ONLY be established on a very large number (like medicines and therefore vaccines...for simple people : Cheesy: ) all things equal otherwise!
A somewhat simple calculation allows you to establish a difference by making a ratio of thermal vehicle weight to electric vehicle weight. If the ratio is 30% for example, wear will follow on the tire : Cheesy: close to this ratio, and therefore fine wear particles in town and on the road.
: Arrowd:
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by plasmanu » 14/11/23, 09:06

I like your way of seeing things.
We make statistics with all those who do not want things to change (who are terribly numerous for fear of change) against those who want to make things happen (not many because there is the risk of making mistakes).

Result: stay quietly behind your computer and do absolutely nothing apart from arthritis in your fingers.
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Remundo » 14/11/23, 09:22

In order of importance on tire wear
1) driving style
2) the roads traveled
3) the weight of the vehicle
4) the quality of the gum

Contrary to popular belief, the highway wears tires little, because the tire does little work (driving at constant speed on regular tarmac).

What makes the tire work are braking, strong acceleration, fast turns, and abrasion of the road surface.

The EV, as I said, affects driving style. Most EVists have a cast pipe. I noticed myself that I am more spontaneously "aggressive" in thermal mode than in EV mode. You will see it on the road, the angry ones (high speed, stick-to-Q, dislocations) are mostly VTs.

Recently, however, a new "race" of EVists has appeared, who overtake you in one go and then drive calmly, they often have Tesla model 3s, which are very quick to accelerate. Except that if they stay too long, their autonomy melts like snow in the sun... then you have to calm down, you can't drive 40 km/h above the limit everywhere... : roll:
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Janic
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Re: Electric Cars and transport, wire news




by Janic » 14/11/23, 10:13

14/11/23, 10:06
plasmanu
I like your way of seeing things.
We make statistics with all those who do not want things to change (who are terribly numerous for fear of change) against those who want to make things happen (not many because there is the risk of making mistakes).

Well done ! This is exactly what I emphasize regarding vaccines where conservatism prevails over the reality on the ground. The only ones who want to make things happen have been “pissed off” to continue doing lucrative business, as usual.
Result: stay quietly behind your computer and do absolutely nothing apart from arthritis in your fingers.
On the one hand, I only spend a little time there each day, unlike some who browse multiple social networks. Then I don't have arthritis in my fingers or elsewhere, given my lifestyle, I leave this for your use.

Remondo
Contrary to popular belief, the highway wears tires little, because the tire does little work (driving at constant speed on regular tarmac).
More precisely, it does not wear more than a vehicle at the same speeds on a national or even departmental road (old declassified national roads)
The EV, as I said, affects driving style. Most EVists have a cast pipe. I noticed myself that I am more spontaneously "aggressive" in thermal mode than in EV mode.
Probably because pressing the accelerator reduces the EV's distance limit as you point out below! Whereas your old thermal driving did not take into account the loss of autonomy, the petrol stations being much more numerous and faster than the electric charging stations. Furthermore, the maximum torque in EV being immediate, no need to increase the revs to obtain maximum torque.
You will see it on the road, the angry ones (high speed, stick-to-Q, dislocations) are mostly VTs.
Being the most numerous, it makes sense! : Cheesy:
Recently, however, a new "race" of EVists has appeared, who overtake you in one go and then drive calmly, they often have Tesla model 3s, which are very quick to accelerate. Except that if they stay too long, their autonomy melts like snow in the sun... then you have to calm down, you can't drive 40 km/h above the limit everywhere...
quickly overtaking another vehicle is certainly one of the advantages of the EV, it is better for safety, especially on departmental roads.
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