Change car, wait or not?

[yannko]

Hello dear friends ,

I turn to econologists to advise me. In the more or less short term, I will have to change vehicles, and I'm trying to find out what to do.

At the moment, I have a Renault 19 from 1989, double body carburetor, which goes on its 150 km.

Its fuel consumption is as follows:
-About 6 L / 100 km on road and highway (its main use), in flexible driving.
-About 8 L / 100 km in the city (rather 7,5 L in summer), same driving, no way to do less .

I will have to make multiple repairs shortly, namely, front brakes, all shock absorbers, buy summer tires (because here winter tires are mandatory outside built-up areas), coolant leak (basically it's everything for big problems).

Given the cost of these parts (I do a lot of operations myself, when it's simple), I wonder if the game is really worth the effort.

This vehicle is not catalyzed, but passes anti-pollution standards (for cars with carburetor). That said, you know the problems related to carburetors, I will not draw you a drawing.

On the other hand, new cars are at a bargain price (I'm not fond of big cars, I use public transport 80% of the time). I want to minimize the impact of the use of the car (especially in terms of consumption of petroleum energy), and therefore, in motorization, I think:

- either with an LPG or CNG engine (rather LPG given the number of stations here),
-or a diesel engine but running almost only with vegetable oil.

And finally, the last aspect in this choice is the fairly close marketing of electric vehicles (at least I hope so).

What do you think to do?

1. Repair my R19, and wait until the electric market is really open, trying to extend the life expectancy of my car?

2. Use my R19 to the end without repairing it (remaining reasonable and without risking an accident of course), and changing it with a newer vehicle, taking advantage of a purchase aid (by sending it for scrap)?

3. Maintain the R19 in a reduced way, keeping it for small tasks (cutting wood, transporting furniture, moving, etc ...), and using a newer vehicle for real journeys (so 2 ​​cars)?

Knowing that solution 2 does not please me too much, because I hate destroying "usable" material (under certain conditions).

Here, I await your opinions and your comments !

[oiseautempete]

In your place I would put down this old polluting guinbarde and quickly eaten cash and I would buy a C1 or 107 petrol which pollutes and consumes moderately (5L / 100 on average road + city, including in summer with the optional air conditioning) for the C1 of my wife while driving flexible but always at the authorized Vmax) ... But it is you who sees ...
(at first sight, just the cost of parts for the repair will greatly exceed the value of the R19 ... and it will still remain an old car after ...)

[Did67]

Another answer, along the same lines:

I had a Xantia TD with some problems (braking regulator on the hydraulic circuit: cost 600 €; injection pump in the process of failure; but technical control OK) and a ZX Diesel under a pear tree (rear axle "bulging", no not pass the technical control).

I sold both to buy two C1s - one for me, one for my wife.

One is LPG (the second will undoubtedly be, but the "cash" is a little lacking ...).

In France, in basic version, the second cost 6 € (all bonuses and scrappage deducted). The first, mid-range version, with air conditioning option (I have a heart condition and suffers from heat in the summer) cost me € 500. 8-door version both.

For the LPG transformation, I remain at my expense € 1.

With that you have:

- a car very pleasant to drive (but a little noisy, let's be honest), very very pleasant even, big surprise (and the exhaust noise of a Porsche as a bonus!)

- which emits 95 g of CO² per km (barely more than a PRIUS)

- you fill up at 15/17 € (it's nice)

- you do not emit any particles (it is better for public health and the color of monuments in the city)

- you don't emit much less NOx

I consume between 5,8 and 6,2 l of LPG (in general, + 20% due to the lower density).

When we go out at 5 with dog and luggage, instead of the C5 (also LPG), we now take our two C1 (equivalent consumption) ...


Alternative: I saw an advertisement for the Renault Clio Campus (old look) in a basic version fitted with factory LPG at € 6 (with scrappage bonus, tax credit and everything ...). Worth a look if it is still in the catalog.

[Christophe]

I did not think that a gasoline of 1989 could still pass the CT anti pollution currently successfully!

For the choice of a possible new vehicle (or used) here is a multi-criteria classification (very) interesting and (ultra) complete with beautiful comparative curves: https://www.econologie.com/voitures-neuv ... -4184.html



Over 1700 cars and utilities are listed!

It allows you to find in (almost) a click what is best for consumption for example ...

ps: if you don't want to download the full 22 MB file, there is the online version here http://www.ate.ch/fr/politique-campagne ... ctive.html

[Did67]

We skipped an important aspect, mentioned on another thread.

How much gray energy is in a new car. On another thread, the figure of 5 tonnes of C had been quoted, I believe.

It seems to me to have calculated that with 70 km / 000 km of C80 compared to my C000, it was "compensated". After that, it's all good (balance sheet question C). So contrary to what we often think and hear, "pulling" vehicles that are quite greedy in length is not generally favorable to the C balance !!!!

[yannko]

Great, thank you for your very interesting answers !

I did not think that a gasoline of 1989 could still pass the CT anti pollution currently successfully!

Yes I too was surprised , that said, the rules here are a little more flexible I think (normal, you have to give the population time to change vehicles gradually, otherwise they are financially stifled), but it will not last forever .

This R19 is at the limit of the Euro 3 threshold I think (I have to check). The performance is not too bad for a car of this age, and with this technology. That said, when I start cold, in winter ... there's no denying it, it smells very strange !

For the choice of a possible new vehicle (or used) here is a multi-criteria classification (very) interesting and (ultra) complete with beautiful comparative curves

Super this database, very practical, I'm almost lost in my choice!

Another answer, along the same lines:
With that you have:

- a car very pleasant to drive (but a little noisy, let's be honest), very very pleasant even, big surprise (and the exhaust noise of a Porsche as a bonus!)

- which emits 95 g of CO² per km (barely more than a PRIUS)

- you fill up at 15/17 € (it's nice)

- you do not emit any particles (it is better for public health and the color of monuments in the city)

- you don't emit much less NOx

I consume between 5,8 and 6,2 l of LPG (in general, + 20% due to the lower density).

Did, thank you for your advice, in truth, I was secretly waiting for you to intervene, to be able to discuss your satisfaction with the C1 !
I see that it is also very interesting. What do you think of it on the highway, and on longer journeys? Nothing to report?
This kind of car tempts me a lot, if I can find a nice price in the future, it could do it!

We skipped an important aspect, mentioned on another thread.

How much gray energy is in a new car. On another thread, the figure of 5 tonnes of C had been quoted, I believe.

Yes, I have the subject in mind (very interesting too!), And it is for this reason that I go far in advance to study my best option, and refer to experienced people like you!

My R19 would therefore be fairly quickly "reimbursed" in embodied energy, if I chose a type C1 vehicle.

I saw the Fiat Panda Panda with Natural Gas, I found the concept also nice, what do you think?

[Christophe]

We skipped an important aspect, mentioned on another thread.

Here is the other thread in question: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fabricatio ... t8713.html

ps: the C1 and its cloned siblings from PSA and Toyota are generally quite badly rated by auto journalists (generally they put 18-19 in Lamborghini or other Audi S8 or bmw M5) so good ... but it's true that the trunk of the C1 really lacks volume (compared to a twingo 1 for example) ... even for 1 person it can be short!

Uh is there a chest on a lamborghini?

[yannko]

In your place I would put down this old polluting guinbarde and quickly eaten cash and I would buy a C1 or 107 petrol which pollutes and consumes moderately (5L / 100 on average road + city, including in summer with the optional air conditioning) for the C1 of my wife while driving flexible but always at the authorized Vmax) ... But it is you who sees ...
(at first sight, just the cost of parts for the repair will greatly exceed the value of the R19 ... and it will still remain an old car after ...)

Yes it is true that the cost of the parts risk (it is even certain) will exceed the value of the R19, but in the end, value of what? If this is the cost of the occasion ... well it is of no interest to me, because I believe that a car is not only limited to a price, it is a tool, therefore a car in good condition to ride has a certain "value" (not monetary).

It's like the guys talking about the economic depreciation of diesel on forums auto. Their only comparison point is the resale discount. . It annoys me deeply, because I am not a (good) typical consumer, and a car for me can not last THAT 5 or 6 years. It is a long-term investment, and, in my opinion, it must last over time (minimum 10 years, even 15).

Fortunately, I do not reason like them, otherwise I will buy c .... ies every month to renew my fleet of items at a discount. .

That said, you are right, my R19 is old, but hey, polluting and eat food you exaggerate a little , that's true, but no more than a modern SUV or an Audi A4 or A6 (it's fashionable ...).

The C1 seems excellent to me on paper, I will perhaps give it a try, when I have a purchase budget planned.
The Panda seems nice too (even if slightly more delicious).
If I was investing for the long term, I was thinking of the new 1.6 TDIs, with their sobriety, a dual-fuel HVB ​​kit, and a vegetable oil filtering station. . Problem: overcoming the protests of my loved ones about the conversion of a new, and quite expensive, car to run it with oil !

We skipped an important aspect, mentioned on another thread.

Here is the other thread in question: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fabricatio ... t8713.html

ps: the C1 and its cloned siblings from PSA and Toyota are generally quite badly rated by auto journalists (generally they put 18-19 in Lamborghini or other Audi S8 or bmw M5) so good ... but it's true that the trunk of the C1 really lacks volume (compared to a twingo 1 for example) ... even for 1 person it can be short!

Uh is there a chest on a lamborghini?

Christophe, I'm coming back to earth with my budget , yes, the more I think about it, the more I like the C1. The auto journalists are not realistic (they are a little hammer with their tests, and people follow like sheep anyway: s)!
It just remains to be seen on long journeys what it gives (well it can hardly be worse than my 20-year-old boiler), because I don't want to use the car too much in town (this is not compatible with my conception of the car).

LPG plugs me in well, because stations are legion in the Czech Republic, the gain in pollution is appreciable, and the prices fairly stable (we have just suffered fairly violent increases this January 1st).

It's hard to choose between all these possibilities! I'm waiting for Citro’s opinion too !

[Flytox]

Great, thank you for your very interesting answers !

I did not think that a gasoline of 1989 could still pass the CT anti pollution currently successfully!

Yes I too was surprised , that said, the rules here are a little more flexible I think (normal, you have to give the population time to change vehicles gradually, otherwise they are financially stifled), but it will not last forever .

This R19 is at the limit of the Euro 3 threshold I think (I have to check). The performance is not too bad for a car of this age, and with this technology. That said, when I start cold, in winter ... there's no denying it, it smells very strange !

The cars pass the technical control with the standard under which they were produced at the time. If it is in good condition, it still meets the standard. Given the manufacturer's tolerances, even a car with a high mileage> 300 km still passes.

[yannko]

It's true Flytox, thank you for this reminder. This is why I still manage to drive with this car.

In reality, a change in the type of carburetion (injection should I say ) could do the trick, but I doubt the legality of these kinds of changes !

At worst, if the car really gives up, or if it no longer passes the technical control, I might be able to make a generator with its engine (I like to hack ). Or do some experiments (pantone, alternative fuels, etc ...).

In the meantime, I maintain it as I go along, and for the time being my time does not seem to be excessively polluting, but that does not solve my problems of course!