Dacia Sandero LPG at a 8700, 6700 5700 not euros!

[Did67]

but also having a C5 V6 petrol, I can immediately see the interest of your post.
jeff

The typical example of a car to equip !!!

I have the 2.0 l. Mixed manufacturer consumption: 8,5 l / 100 I believe.

I make about 8 liters of petrol (equivalent - depending on my on-board computer).

I consume around 10 liters of LPG, which is an excess consumption of 20%. This is the "high" standard usually given. We are talking about + 10 to + 20% ... LPG is less "dense" in energy than gasoline. There is more hydrogen and less C. So 1 l of LPG "contains" less energy than 1 l of gasoline (itself less energetic than a liter of diesel).

As stated in a discussion elsewhere, this is not a break! We stay on fossil. We keep putting CO² in a mess. But much less CO (10 times less), almost more particles (compared to Diesel but FAP!), Less NOx ...

As indicated in an exchange with Citro, by equipping a C1, I arrive at lower emissions than those of a Prius for a price 3 times lower!

It is therefore necessary to combine the "downsizing" (living with things smaller and less greedy - without criticizing yourself, you started badly with your V6 !!! I also let myself be caught by an "excellent opportunity": a C5 great -equipped - all options - sold by a grandpa at 23 km for 000 €) and LPG and we can arrive at an affordable price at an acceptable solution (or "less worse") ... This is the meaning of my message ...

[coucou789456]

re

Indeed, a V6 petrol is not what you could call a thrifty car ... but I did not buy it, I inherited it from my father who is now missing. he had chosen this model, also super equipped, all existing options at the time, including pneumatic pressure detection which I discovered by chance following the loss of pressure on a tire.
my car has as well 105000 km for 7 years, and I try to find out if it is worth it or not, given that I already have a professional diesel car (skoda felicia combi year 97 230000 Km) and a Cherokee LPG for trips in the countryside and in the mountains. residing in Narbonne, I am only 60km from Perpignan and by road about 140 km from Odeillo (solar oven for those interested) located to be precise below the town of Fon Romeu ...

in any case, thank you for your information

on the other hand, the reception of the car once equipped with LPG requires a new registration document (sic). Languedoc Roussillon is not part of the regions granting a discount on the price of the registration card, which will cost me about 450 € more.

i.e. 3500 € + 450 €

jeff

[yannko]

I intervene on this very interesting subject to bring what I have found in recent days by taking an interest in the developments of LPG.

Hyundai has focused its research on an LPI engine, entirely dedicated to LPG, not bi-fuel. In my opinion, it is much more interesting than a petrol / LPG couple, for obvious reasons of efficiency and optimization.
FYI, Hyundai seems to be, in the latest news, in much better shape than many European and French manufacturers in particular (see car news).
On the other hand, and where it becomes much more interesting, is that this engine is hybridized on the Elantra LPI (apparently they will change their range of vehicles in this direction, a good point).

For me, this is excellent news, finally a manufacturer who changes the game a little, and innovates a little bit his technological sales book.
The main problem of overconsumption of LPG is partly resolved with these optimizations, we find ourselves between 5 and 6 L / 100 km, it becomes much more interesting in my opinion than the values ​​observed on vehicles after all quite recent (Golf LPG, etc. ...).

Given that it is offered in South Korea between 11 and 000 Euros, but unfortunately not yet marketed in Europe , it could be extremely interesting from both an ecological and an economic point of view, so econologically speaking of course .

I know that the tax credit is debated, but for comparison with the C1 GPLisée of which Did67 spoke, this Elantra would give right to a tax credit of 4000 Euros (with the scrappage bonus) if it was marketed in France (in view of its CO2 and LPG emissions).

It remains only to hope in the future for an evolution of the models to be able to connect them to the mains, in order to recharge the batteries, and that will be all good. It is much more interesting, in my opinion, than the Sandero, despite the price difference.

Personally, I think it is always more interesting to use LPG in vehicles, heating or cooking, than to let it burn to the ground (as Christophe said in another post, it is in a way a "pseudo-neutral" balance sheet, since anyway we will extract oil no matter what). Following discussions that I had the chance to have with a person working in petroleum (extraction and delivery), I was able to review my opinion on this fuel a little (in a more realistic than idealistic way). I will post about it, because it would be interesting to discuss it with econologists .

Edit: here is the link for the announcement of the vehicle, and its technical characteristics.

http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... aunch.html

Does anyone have additional info on LPI or dedicated GPL / CNG engines? What are their main differences with a conventional gasoline injection engine?

[I Citro]

At Citro, to continue our debate started on another subject:
My kit is the liquid injection from Borel (the VIALLE system - a Dutch system as its name does not indicate).

I think, but this should be checked, that my on-board computer "sums" the fuel injection opening pulses, taken up by the LPG computer.

Thank you, I received your MP.

I also thank yannko for his info on Hyundai LPG optimized engines.
It is obvious, and, once again, our administrations have done everything despite common sense. The best engine to gel is the diesel engine. But they chose gasoline, which was easier, cheaper, but significantly less efficient.
Why diesel? Because the LPG has a slower combustion, sees its performance decrease with high revs, but in return provides more torque and is quieter ...

Regarding my saffron 2.2si with LPG. I announced a budget of 10.00 € / 100km. This was before the purchase of our 106 electrics. Since then, we hardly use it except for our weekends and our consumption, essentially extra urban, drops a lot (10 liters / 100km against more than 12litres previously).
as the LPG also returned to a more moderate price, my fuel budget dropped to 5.90 € / 100km, the equivalent in diesel to 1.00 € / liter. Maybe I'll make it last despite various troublesome little breakdowns. (a fuel line broke this evening).

Ah, concerning the LPG tanks. My rudder is equipped with an icom 72L toric tank in which I can accommodate 66L
The tanks for liquid injection include a submerged pump which further decreases their useful capacity a little ...

If I had to do it again, I think it would still be in gas injection with a "FULL" toric tank, ie with the center of the torus used as a tank. We thus arrive at 77L of capacity in a conventional toroidal size of 72L.

Last point on which I am maniac; my rudders have the LPG filling orifice placed in the fuel door and therefore completely invisible from the outside. Several reasons for this requirement, it is more ergonomic, it is cleaner, it is more professional.
On the C5, there is the space provided. I hope your installer did not have the vice to make a hole in the wing or the bumper ...

[Did67]

Alas yes !!!

But I'm not a maniac. We are not going to siphon the LPG - or else the guy must stop smoking !!

Maybe the risk of a rust spot ???

The look, I don't care. A car is just a "rolling machine". I also pay close attention to small mechanical problems, noises, leaks, etc ... But the body, my last concern!

Exactly what you say about the couple. So gasoline drivers must take the habit of driving their LPG car like a Diesel! At a much lower speed. Problem on my C5: the gearbox is much too short - I have to "spin" on the motorway in 5th gear. The 6th is sorely lacking !!!

[Did67]

on the other hand, the reception of the car once equipped with LPG requires a new registration document (sic). Languedoc Roussillon is not part of the regions granting a discount on the price of the registration card, which will cost me about 450 € more.

i.e. 3500 € + 450 €

jeff

To check: this requires a switch to the DRIRE (86 €) + the "renewal of a vehicle registration document" (as in case of loss, 36 € or a few, it seems to me). In Alsace. To be checked in your regions. The tax is only due on the 1st registration in the department.

[Did67]

my fuel budget dropped to 5.90 € / 100km, the equivalent in diesel to 1.00 € / liter. Maybe I'll make it last despite various troublesome little breakdowns. (this evening a fuel line broke).


The tanks for liquid injection include a submerged pump which further decreases their useful capacity a little ...

1) Do you think your Safrane would fuel 6 l of diesel per 100 ??? With this generation, it would be a TurboDiesel. I have a Xantia Turbodiesel at the end of its life. With my driving which gives 10 l / 100 in LPG with the C5, I am at 7,2 l of diesel / 100 on the Xantia TD.

So I think I "win" by running on LPG in financial terms. And not bad in terms of pollution (CO, particles).

2) If you compare HDI / TDI and Co, there, yes, it must balance in terms of fuel cost.

But my C5 was undercut compared to an HDI exactly the cost of the transfromation. The best offer for the same model, same options, same age, a little more kilometer that I had found on the Internet was € 15 (my C500 petrol having cost 5). It was at the time when diesel was flirting with 12 € / l; the petrol model was strictly unsaleable ...

So I estimate that my LPG equipment was immediately amortized.

So today, I just have the gain in terms of pollution (CO, NOx and particles - despite the original FAP on this range of vehicles).

Point 2: yes, for the submersible pump ...

[I Citro]

1) Do you think your Safrane would fuel 6 l of diesel per 100 ??? With this generation, it would be a TurboDiesel. I have a Xantia Turbodiesel at the end of its life. With my driving which gives 10 l / 100 in LPG with the C5, I am at 7,2 l of diesel / 100 on the Xantia TD.

So I think I "win" by running on LPG in financial terms. And not bad in terms of pollution (CO, particles).

2) If you compare HDI / TDI and Co, there, yes, it must balance in terms of fuel cost.

But my C5 was undercut compared to an HDI exactly the cost of the transfromation. The best offer for the same model, same options, same age, a little more kilometer that I had found on the Internet was € 15 (my C500 petrol having cost 5). It was at the time when diesel was flirting with 12 € / l; the petrol model was strictly unsaleable ...

So I estimate that my LPG equipment was immediately amortized.

I proceeded like you when I switched to LPG except that I sold my AUDI A4 TDI 9.000 € to buy a rudder with all BVA options at 6.000 € and the difference financed the installation of LPG. By the way, the Safran auto box consumed less than my current mechanical box ...
For real diesel consumption, my BX atmo consumed 6.2L / 100km and my audi A4, 7.0L / 100km (weight, air conditioning and ... performance). I sold it because I was a perpetual outlaw. I wanted a driver's lounge peacefully.
Furthermore, I find it amazing that we still have gear levers and clutch pedals on our cars. I had 2 car boxes, it's a treat, but it's still very poor compared to the approval that our electric cars give us which 95% exempt us from using the brake pedal.

[yannko]

Good evening citro and Did67 ,

it is true that diesel engines seem to be better suited to LPG in view of their mechanical characteristics. However, is it possible to obtain the combustion of the gas simply by a very strong compression of the air / LPG mixture (auto-ignition like diesel)?
Besides, I was wondering, is it the same on buses equipped with CNG? I have taken a SOR BN12 bus equipped with CNG here on various occasions, and I regularly take the same chassis but in diesel. It is obvious that at the exhaust, we feel the difference if I can say . On the other hand, I wondered what were the main different elements between these 2 engines, because at least their sound is similar. What would be the modifications to a diesel to burn LPG or CNG?

Coming back to auto boxes, I have never had the chance to drive one, but the idea appeals to me , because I was able to have the technical demonstration, being a regular passenger of an A6 Avant multitronic.
Clearly, in my view, this has a number of advantages, if properly designed and used.
I imagine on an electric vehicle, it must be really top in pleasure, more stress with a manual gearbox, more mechanical troubles, the top what!

[I Citro]

To run on LPG or CNG, on a diesel engine, the easiest way is to leave the operation of the diesel injection pump operational but without actuating the throttle control.
Thus the diesel injection pump operates "at idle" and provides pilot injection which ignites the fuel.
The LPG or CNG dosage is provided by its dedicated calculator.

LPG is the least flammable fuel there is (> 400 ° C against 250 ° C for diesel and 300 ° C for gasoline). This is the reason why it requires an ignition system in perfect condition.

The multitonic box made me dream, but I no longer have an Audi and do not intend to buy one. They no longer correspond to my automotive ideal.

I imagine on an electric vehicle, it must be really top in pleasure, more stress with a manual gearbox, more mechanical troubles, the top what!

For the moment, 14.000 km in 7 months is my feeling, and my wife thinks the same.