Pantone Article in Science and Life November 2007

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Former Oceano
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by Former Oceano » 07/11/07, 21:55

As for the work of the young people of Douai, I am reading their rapprot and I realize that the tube connecting the output of the reactor to the intake pipe is long.
However, it had already been noticed that the efficiency of the reactor decreased with the distance from it to the engine (with steam generators on tractor diesel engines). This is an element to consider for the results of the bench study.
Among the hypotheses advanced, there is that of radical reactions. Free radicals have a short life (a few milliseconds) and the length of the reactor-engine connection has a significant impact.
Reminder: Radical reactions require little energy to fragment organic molecules, due to electronic rearrangements.
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by Other » 07/11/07, 23:38

Hello
hello, it will be interesting to know the conso DS, I have an uncle ui had one at the time in Geneva and said it consumed very little 4 or 5 liters I think


I have two in my early age ID and DS19 consomation was in his best 8,3 liters at 100km at 90kmh without any changes, maybe your uncle had done something on it? I still do not arrive today with water doping at such results on a gasoline.

As far as pollution is concerned, my principle is that the problem must be solved at the source and not catalysts and particulate filters that consume energy (a self without a catalyst is more economical, but it produces nox)
a diesel if we change the advance injection is more economical but we produce more nox ..
On planes no catalyst, not even return of crankcase vapor in the intake : Evil:

Now for big engines how to explain that big diesel polished less than small cars?
that. it's not me he says
When we compare the engines of camoins with small diesel cars, at least, it is the reports of the experts.
Either they are afraid of attacking the road, or the camoin engines have a very different designs of cars?

the big diesel of boat have a higher yield, with the small diesel, that, it is easy to understand, it walks in (true diesel pure)

The problem of displacement is imposed by legislation in some countries that puts the builders in a car, the tax or regulation should be based on the thermal efficiency of the engine.
To release an 20kw on an engine one should take only the consumption without regard to the cubic capacity or the number of cylinders

a gasoline engine is penalized when it is not used in charge, but a large diesel is the opposite it becomes economical when used in low load.

Although I would not enter here variable cams and electronic injection that modified this theory of (load) engines gasoline ..

Andre
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by MichelM » 08/11/07, 08:02

Bonjour à tous
In terms of changing models to consume less: I read several times that with the increase in performance and the increase in the weight of new vehicles the gains were zero or even negative. Example (memory) move from the Peugeot 406 to the 407 switches the consumption to + 5%. It seems clear to me that for the moment the automobile evolution was not going towards energy saving (see the new SUV and 4x4). Worse a manufacturer like VW who had released a car with very low consumption (3L / 100km) did not sell and stopped. Fortunately the oil increases it wakes up the rich countries which overconsumption ...

Michel
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by pluesy » 08/11/07, 11:11

totally agree with you my bx break 19d made empty 1037kg
a xantia break (replacing the bx) 1350 kg
and a c5 (replacing the xantia) more than 1500kg !!!

it's the same segment engines are theoretically more sober but drag 300 or 500 kg more in my opinion it does not help conso especially in town ...
Last edited by pluesy the 10 / 11 / 07, 10: 58, 1 edited once.
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by Former Oceano » 08/11/07, 23:36

Downsizing ...
The new Mazda 2 is a chouïa smaller than the previous version and especially lighter. Below the ton ...
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by pluesy » 10/11/07, 11:37

keep looking for info on masda 2 I fell on top

http://www.autonews.fr/fr/cmc/videos/20 ... 12996.html

long live the dirt : Mrgreen:
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by pluesy » 10/11/07, 13:00

after some research it appears that the new mazda 2 weighing 955kg
makes 100kg less than previous versions and 200kg less than its direct competitors ...

a pavement in the pond what ... : Cheesy:

it's still 250 kg more than an old ax that does not have it is true the same resistance to the crash test or the same level of equipment hope that the other manufacturer will follow the movement ...

it is true that at the time the bx and ax (the lightest against the competition of their time) had a reputation as a "hardware car" which stuck to their skin ...
the manufacturers have learned the lesson and manufactured tanks whose consumption is maintained at a reasonable threshold thanks to progress on engines
Apparently to reduce emissions of c02 light cars start to repoint the tip of their noses
ecology being fashionable it may work ... : Cheesy:
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by nlc » 10/11/07, 16:20

I was told about this article a few days ago, and I suspected there would be a debate here ...

Well, my opinion on the matter is that we have to look on the bright side of things: econology now has direct contact with Science & Vie (at least, with one of their journalist).

This means that other more complimentary articles on water doping alone could come out.

If not for all the people who can do it and want to save fuel and less pollute, do like me, switch to electric scooter!

I only consume 1kWh of energy to make my daily journey of 32Km.
Let 3kWh be the 100Km, so about 30cts the 100Km.
- Is 3€ of energy to make 1000Km
- Is 21€ to do my 7000Km annual office / home trips

With 21 € you fill only about a third of the tank of your car, and .... how many km? :D

In addition, I put less time to make my trip by car, because I grid everyone in the queues at the roundabouts!
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by dred » 13/11/07, 02:43

Here I have read everything and I have more than 5 small hours to sleep
but I ask my question: Budget?
how much would the experience cost?
2 identical engines including a modify, rent a bench?
a price, what is needed
ps christophe says not to say that is system is impossible but says that c impossible to find funding. I feel that 2 is possible
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by bob_isat » 26/11/07, 19:20

Hi everybody,

So that this email is understandable I represent myself, I am the author of "credible explanation to water doping":

https://www.econologie.com/file/technolo ... ologie.pdf

Following the article published in Science and Life, here is the answer sent to readers' mail, in electronic format today:


Julien ROCHEREAU wrote:Dear Science and Life,

Hard reader for more than 15 years, I was flattered to be contacted by one of your journalist (Pierre GRUMBERG), following my bibliographic study on the electrification of water vapor and its possible implications on combustion.
With this journalist, we had an interesting and well-argued exchange.
Alas, when I open your journal October 2007, p119), here's what I read:
"Too bad, the dossier is based on work dated from the XNUMXth century or published on the internet, without peer review".

I have trouble understanding your choices in the treatment of information. Indeed,

- You do not give the web address of my document (is this not the mission of Science and Life, only to encourage its readers to think for themselves?):

https://www.econologie.com/file/technolo ... ologie.pdf

- You ignore the publication of the 'Journal of Electrostatics' of 1989 that I sent you, and which experimentally confirms that a volume of water vapor, when relaxed in contact with a metal, acquires an electric charge:

https://www.econologie.com/file/technolo ... nglish.pdf

I imagine that it is a problem of space, which guided your editorial choice. In this case, why not deliver the only summary of my document:

- Several patents, referenced, report the influence of OH radicals on improving combustion.

-Several laboratories ("peers", also cited in my document) are working on improving the combustion provided by OH radicals, and more generally, electrically excited species.

-The pantone system is precisely to produce water vapor and relax in contact with a metal, which experimentally gives it an electric charge.


Is not this the thread that should be stretched, rather than lingering over Paul Pantone's ramblings and the stupid esotericism that surrounds the system?

I hope you will publish this right of reply and especially that you will provide answers to these questions, as you have brilliantly done for years, to many of my scientific questions.

Please, while waiting for your reply, accept my sincere greetings.

Julien ROCHEREAU

PS: readers who wish can even discuss with us here:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/explicatio ... t2917.html



In view of the goodwill shown by Mr GRUMBERG on this forumI have no doubt that this right of reply will be published in Science and Life.

For the rest, I prepare a doc V2 with more recognized scientific references, and keep an eye on the little guys in Douai.
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