GDP, growth and ecology: why is it blocking?

[highfly-addict]

Hello !

NB: do not confuse growth and development.

Can you develop this distinction?
thanks.

[sen-no-sen]

Growth (economic) consists in the increase in the production of goods and services in an economy over a more or less long period (the time of all exhausted!)

The development is much broader, since it refers above all to society rather than the simple economy, it takes into account social, health changes, Knowledge etc ..., things that improve the standard of living of the inhabitants, and things that are truly sustainable.

We can perfectly make the analogy between economic and biological growth.
Growth is necessary up to a certain point, just as the growth of a living being is essential for it to reach adulthood.
However, at a certain stage, growth stops naturally, otherwise the latter would lead to death.

In our society it should be the same, growth should be stopped (by decisions of its citizens?), Because if it is not decided it will occur ... in pain.
The example of France is before our eyes, after the "thirty glorious" period of economic adolescence (hence a lot of bullshit ..) and therefore growth, the latter is slowed down around the 80s, to stagnate until our days.
Unlike a living being, a society being theoretically immortal (history proves otherwise) recovery periods may exist, but are generally epiphy © Mothers.
The most paradoxical is that "pro-growth" only leads us towards a (painful) and repressed decrease, which is currently the case ...

[Ahmed]

The development is much broader, since it refers above all to society rather than the simple economy, it takes into account social, health changes, Knowledge etc ..., things which improve the standard of living of the inhabitants, and things which are truly durable.

I think that this concept of "development" is above all a clever way of justifying economic growth by establishing the latter as a prerequisite for education and environmental policies: in short, according to this pure rhetoric, one should first have faith, salvation would come (perhaps) in addition ...

[Ptilu]

Sustainable development (or sustainable for English speakers) is a growth model ... It's just that, according to this maxim, we must stabilize wealth (imagine a better valuation tool damn that GDP), which means zero growth, because resources are finite.
Not to be confused with growth, which stipulates that we have already exceeded the possibilities of our riches. Hence the need to reverse, as far as sustainable (transport and consumption)

[Ahmed]

Already, there is a contradiction in your words: you affirm that "sustainable development" is, I quote: "a model of growth" then you say that it is "zero growth".

It's a bit confusing, but I find it very normal with such a muddy concept that plays on words: we think of human development, but in fact it is a way of passing the word. idea of economic growth, green trend, smoothly ...
Pure marketing product, this slogan is only a vain rhetoric to deceive public opinion.
Whichever way we tweak the formula, it is not satisfactory.
Imagine for a moment that the word "development" really covers that of Dev. human, there, everyone agrees (still it would be necessary to specify the content), but why add durable?
A Dev. unsustainable, ephemeral human being is not a development.

For me, this is one more oxymoron, like the recent formula: "We must intensify the exploitation of the forest to preserve biodiversity".
Have fun finding other examples ...

[sen-no-sen]

Nonsense is very much in fashion at the moment Ahmed.

[Ahmed]

Certainly nonsense ... but which go in a very precise sense!

I recommend this great book on the subject of development:
Gilbert RIST "Development, the story of a Western belief"; the style is academic, not everyone likes it, but it's really exciting ...

... and another that I have not read (only the comments), but which, given the title: "The two souls of ecology" and the subtitle: "A critique of sustainable development" is right in the subject.
http://www.article11.info/spip/spip.php?article694

[sen-no-sen]

Ahmad:

For me, this is one more oxymoron, like the recent formula: "We must intensify the exploitation of the forest to preserve biodiversity".
Have fun finding other examples ...

we could quote: "the quiet break" of Mr. President ...
"Flexi-security" (for the boss, not for the worker ...)
"the moralization of capitalism" (that's very strong!) ... in fact we can say that all current politics is an oxymoron!

[Former Oceano]

This society is increasingly social.

It is a occis 'more'

[Christophe]

I revive this subject ...

If we base ourselves solely on GDP to revive the post-coronavirus economy this will be a huge mistake ...