C-Cactus: economic Hdi hybrid Citroen

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 17/11/08, 11:06

Remundo wrote:I quote:
"an improved stop and start" [] "which reduces consumption by 10%"


For parigo in the caps can be ... otherwise it does not exceed 2 or 3% !!! In short it is outright lie ...

PSA even dares to speak of "hybrid micro" ... about "SOUND" Start & stop (standard on the LUPO 3L long before PSA announces its system!) ... and standard since 2007 on the whole range of BMW ...

In France we have no oil but we have arrogance! : Mrgreen:
Last edited by Christophe the 17 / 11 / 08, 15: 53, 1 edited once.
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by Remundo » 17/11/08, 12:07

Hi Cmoa,

The manufacturers do not want to make a hybrid, and EVEN LESS rechargeable.

For more than 10 years, more than one car in 2 could consume less than 4L / 100 even with peak performance of 200 km / h ...

The technology to be developed by Peugeot, an eminent specialist in Diesel (with BMW), is a series ET plug-in hybrid on the sector.

They would easily make less than 3L / 100 in smooth driving, even for a 407 station wagon : Idea:

All this is not done for reasons that we have already mentioned ...

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by C moa » 17/11/08, 15:51

Remundo wrote:Hi Cmoa,

The manufacturers do not want to make a hybrid, and EVEN LESS rechargeable.

For more than 10 years, more than one car in 2 could consume less than 4L / 100 even with peak performance of 200 km / h ...

The technology to be developed by Peugeot, an eminent specialist in Diesel (with BMW), is a series ET plug-in hybrid on the sector.

They would easily make less than 3L / 100 in smooth driving, even for a 407 station wagon : Idea:

All this is not done for reasons that we have already mentioned ...

@+
I agree with you on the bottom, the engines have never been as efficient but at the same time they have never been so heavy (in weight and various equipment).

However, if we take:
- Michelin wheel motors;
- LMP batteries from bolloré;
- All associated with a small powerful generator
I think there is a way to average !!!

Personally, I tell myself in addition that there is no need to invent a new vehicle because if in an existing car (recent or old) we remove, the engine, the gearbox, the steering ... and that the '' batteries and a group are replaced (the Michelin wheels do not take up space in the engine compartment). I think you can electrify any car.

[ON project MODE]
C moa wrote:(AMHA this can be a beautiful subject of project for econology. "To the good hearer ...").

Well I insist a little (I am Breton do not forget it).

I also think that on the forum there are people who would have the skills and the experience necessary to do this technical study at first and why not recover a carcass to make life-size tests thereafter.

Why not create a working group in the style of the group created for Laigret oil ?? Of course we never know in advance where it can lead us but I find it interesting in the process.

Well I say that, I said nothing, I am already quite taken elsewhere so I could not bring you that my full esteem but still, I think that a few .... : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
[OFF project mode]
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by Woodcutter » 17/11/08, 17:01

Remundo wrote:Hello everyone,

Read this morning in Motor nature
http://www.moteurnature.com/actu/2008/p ... brides.php

The ambitions of PSA in the hybrid ...

I quote:
"an improved stop and start" [] "which reduces consumption by 10%"

: Cheesy: With that, will break into the market, it is formidable ambition : Cheesy:

How sad... :| It's Toyota who has toast ... Soon the 3rd generation of Prius (which is a light hybrid, but still hybrid) and more than 20 years of marketing and industrial experience ... : Idea:
Not at all agree with you, Raymond, you completely hide the meaning of the article and it's a shame ...

Toyota sells almost 10 million cars a year worldwide, and how many Prius? Less than 100 ... What reduction in consumption between a Prius and a vehicle of comparable segment? 000%?

The advanced Stop & Start technology, by integrating as with Béhème an intelligent regulation of the alternator, is applicable to ALL the PSA range immediately and this is where I think they are right in terms of real efficiency on the decrease in production of GHGs, even if they only do it for low commercial considerations (PSA does not want to lose, like Toyota, several thousand dollars on each hybrid sold before really mastering the technology) ...

In addition, that does not prevent them from thinking about more for the future (always this problem of profitability and costs, which Toyota does not have)
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by Woodcutter » 17/11/08, 17:06

Here, since we are talking about hybrid, engine-nature and consumption: http://www.moteurnature.com/actu/uneact ... s_id=23894
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by Remundo » 17/11/08, 18:30

Hi Lumberjack,

You know as well as I do that playing with an alternator starter is beating around the bush ... exhaust ... : Idea:

For the Connaught thing, well here is a good example: the manufacturers are dragging so many galoshes on the rechargeable hybrid that they are mini PME who are starting to talk about them on the subject ...

However, these small SMEs do not have the means to industrialize / make reliable / have after-sales service on a large scale and at low cost.

it reminds me of stories ... Dassault Cleanova, Renault Kangoo Elect'road : Idea:
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by Flytox » 17/11/08, 18:53

Bonjour Christophe
Christophe wrote:
Remundo wrote:I quote:
"an improved stop and start" [] "which reduces consumption by 10%"


For parigo in the caps can be ... otherwise it does not exceed 2 or 3% !!! In short it is outright lie ...

PSA even dares to speak of "hybrid micro" ... about "SOUND" Start & stop (standard on the LUPO 3L long before PSA announces its system!) ... and standard since 2007 on the whole range of BMW ...

In France we have no oil but we have arrogance! : Mrgreen:


Totally agree with you, 10% is nonsense. Another pretext to make complicated and sell technology to the gogos instead of tackling the real problems and limiting the power of these cars.
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by Woodcutter » 18/11/08, 10:08

Flytox wrote:[...] Totally agree with you, 10% is nonsense. Another pretext to make complicated and sell technology to the gogos instead of tackling the real problems and limiting the power of these cars.
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Bad ... :?

Under the "normal" driving conditions which are supposed to be represented in the standardized cycle of consumption measurement in Europe, what is the difference between a small car with little power (C1 / 107 for example) and an optimized car with much higher power? (BMW 1 series for example)?

Less than a liter ... (staying in 4 and 5 l)

Technology does have a small interest...
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by Woodcutter » 18/11/08, 10:17

Remundo wrote:Hi Lumberjack,

You know as well as I do that playing with an alternator starter is beating around the bush ... exhaust ... : Idea: [...]


No, no and re-no!

The alternator-starter is a simple solution, quite inexpensive and extensible on ALL new cars or almost ...

Much more effective in the very short term than all research on so-called models which we have been promised for 5 years that they will be on sale next year!

Well, instead of pissing off the manufacturers with an ESP that will soon be mandatory (that way people will no longer even need to know how to drive ... : roll:), the European Commission had better make this type of utensil compulsory!

After, that you consider that it is not a significant enough effort on the part of the manufacturers or does not show a sufficiently marked technological break, I agree, but do not say that it would not be effective ...
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by C moa » 18/11/08, 12:09

To go in the direction of Bucheron, remember that the best is the enemy of good !!!

Clearly, it is better a small advance today than a revolution in 15 years because as I have already said, I think that the hybrid is a good technological solution but that it will not be developed for a long time . Even toyota with all its technological advance does not manage to do better in terms of consumption and releases than the best diesels ...
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