HVP Fuel: comparative combustion oil palm oil

[Other]

Hello

Indeed the kind of oil they chose is close to margarine,
For old diesel in-line piston pumps, the original filtration is generally 5 microns.

In their test it is a felt filter as found on oil heating systems.

Currently I test the peanut oil it is quite thick some night it freezes here currently .. with canola oil it is better, it is the most widespread in restaurants there even possibility of buying new in quantity at $ 0,5 per liter.

filtering the oil at 1 micron does not change much at 5 micron for these engines it is not impurities which is problematic it is rather a kind of coagulation of the oil, we filtered a 900 liter to 5 micron and after storing it a winter the summer after it had to start again to filter, the vehicle filter clogged quickly, as I am curious, I open the filters with a sheet metal seals they are as covered gelatin
it's not paraffin, it's a kind of fat.
One of my fistons to operate a summer with a simple automobile oil filter and not even a filter, problems soon, but during the 4 tanks he spent we found that the performance of the vehicle was almost equal to diesel. . As I said above, even heating the oil has difficulty passing through a filter originally designed for diesel.
it is this restriction which prevents us from seeking all the power of diesel, We have installed a 5 micron diesel boat filter 4 times larger than the original and less expensive than the bosh there is a good diferrence on the power and the duration.

For the new high pressure diesel injection com rail, run on high oil% I do not think we have feedback from 100 km, I think it will take some years for when these cars will be old can allow to experiment, I see badly experimenting on a new Jetta unless you want to take risks.

Another remark when the oil is well deposited, the filtration only collects very little residue if care is taken to take the oil well above the molasses level, a diesel filter on this pumping circuit takes time to seal. it is enough to pass once a trace of grease and finished for the filter.

For fouling the motors that the son dismantles (I watch this closely) he has several motors, one on the easel rotating in standby.
Even those who run on diesel or fuel oil get dirty too have found broken segments caught in carbon, the fuel is for something, but the use of the vehicle and the injectors that pee crooked are much more in question.

It is not necessary to be an expert in engine, it is necessary to disassemble several and to follow the problems to understand.
Diesels are great when you have your hands in the pistons take small gloves ..

Andre

[Woodcutter]

You who are very strong in motors, you will probably be able to answer these questions that I ask myself:

• Why did you choose palm oil when, among all the vegetable oils, the one that poses the most problems of viscosity since it is in the solid state at ambient temperature?

The structure that carried out these tests is called CODEART (Cooperation in the Development of Crafts) and operates in developing countries in the South. So you needed an oil from easy local production ...

This implies (as can be seen in the report of the experiment) a thermally insulated supply system and above all 2 oil heating systems which further reduces the overall efficiency of the "oil" option by compared to the "diesel" option.

Whatever oil you use in a Diesel, it must be heated anyway for pure use, otherwise the viscosity is much too high.

Whenever I read information about vegetable oil in engines (especially Econology and Oliomobile), the oil was be filtered at 1μm. Here, their oil is filtered at 10μm.
10 particles, which are therefore larger in the injection system, are thus allowed to pass.
Can this difference be explained by the "hardiness" of this Indian engine compared (for example) to a common-rail, or can we attribute certain negative measures to the engine having run on oil (I think , for example, at higher carbon deposits in engine B)?

[...]

A priori, I would tend to say that it has no effect since they did not say much about the wear of the parts of the pump, and when they spoke about it, they attributed rather the differences observed in the acidity of the oil ...

Otherwise, for hardiness, I agree a little, that also implies being able to run the engines in "local" conditions, where the availability of efficient filters is perhaps not guaranteed ...

For filtration on Olio, the minimum recommended for older generation engines is 5 µm, not 1 ...

[paotop]

If memory serves, consuming palm oil in quantity is like "TEC" garden furniture, a sustainable investment in favor of deforestation.

but I’m wrong ...

[Christophe]

Uh palm oil comes from the fruit and not from the trunk.



On the contrary, its use will therefore encourage reforestation!

[Christophe]

Technical questions / comments related to this report:

A) Operation of motors and assemblies.

1) page 4: 2200W resistor supplied by engine generator or external source? As it is an experimental assembly I suppose external source.

2) page 6: almost incomprehensible due to damage bugs.

3) page 7: pkoi the transmission reports are different?

4) page 7: load bank given at 3kw in table?

5) page 8: cetane index of palm oil of 62,5? It is much higher than Diesel (between 45 and 50). I do not see the usefulness of the comparison with the standards of rapeseed oil ... they are not the same products ..

6) page 13: Fairly low exhaust temperature in both cases (oil or diesel) at "full load". In my opinion the engine is not really at full load (more than 2 ° or 450 ° at full load).

In both cases, the specific consumption is catastrophic (single cylinder of old design) but needs to be qualified by the yield from the generator which is not optimal (2% loss)? Didn't they use a 25 kW generator?

7) page 15: much greater play on the rocker arm on oil, but I quote:

"We believe that the misadjustment is certainly not attributable to the use of palm oil in the engine B. It is possible that the misalignment of the valves disturbed the good functioning of the
engines (see interpretations of the results below).

Some measures may therefore have also been affected. It would be interesting to carry out a new test with the rocker arms properly adjusted and checking the clearances every 50 hours. "

Question: have the clearances been redone at hour 0 after "running in" of engine A?

8) page 16: the efficiency of motor A tends to increase over time, that of motor B to decrease. Is this due to note 7) on valve clearances and running-in?

[Christophe]

B) Measuring wearing parts

1) page 18: reduction of the setting from 180 to 160 bars. Same remark that for valve clearances -> a new "run-in" test would be interesting.

2) page 19: wear by matting of the injection pump elements.

Also remember that palm oil entered the injection pump at 80 ° C. However, it is known that the increase in temperature is also accompanied by an increase in the corrosive nature.

This fact is difficult to resolve except by using a better quality pump, but it is "already" a Bosch.

Could a pre-wash pump have also relieved the pump using oil? According to the diagram on page 7, there is none.

"He thinks the pump could probably go 1000 hours without running into any problems." 1000h is not much ... a well-maintained "industrial" engine should be able to do between 5000 and 10 hours before changing "heavy" elements.

3) page 22: fouling.

To conclude, we can say that more marked fouling was indeed observed in engine B at the end of this 150-hour test. However, this fouling did not cause combustion problems or increase consumption. Only a new longer trial
would determine if the use of palm oil really poses a problem of fouling in the engine.

4) page 24: cylinder ovalization, nonexistent in both cases. Good point for oil.

5) page 25 and 26: analysis of the lubricating oil ... it gets complicated for the oil

"Aluminum, chromium, iron, copper and lead are elements considered to be good indicators of abrasion and / or corrosion."

"These results clearly tell us that engine B has suffered significant wear compared to engine A, through abrasion and / or corrosion."

MAIS

"However, we believe that the high levels of aluminum, iron, chromium, copper and lead observed in the lubricating oil of engine B are in part attributable to the failure of this engine to break in before testing."

So difficult to conclude with this analysis ...

6) Conclusions:

At the end of these 150 hours of testing, we can affirm that the use of palm oil in engine B did not pose any major problem.

Overall, we saw a slightly higher consumption and a slightly lower efficiency than for the diesel engine.

From the point of view of wear and fouling, differences compared to engine A could be highlighted but they were still very slight. Engine B could easily have continued to operate longer than 150 hours.

The analyzes of the lubricating oil of engines A and B suggest a problem of corrosion in engine B, which would be due to the free fatty acids present in palm oil. New tests will have to supplement this information.

All these results encourage us and confirm that the choice of the FIELDMARSHALL FM-II engine for the use of palm oil as fuel is a very good choice.

It would still be necessary to carry out new tests to be rid of the uncertainties relating to the running in of engine B, in particular at the level of the rocker rods and the injector.

A real endurance test, of 500 or 1000 hours, would make it possible to complete the results obtained thanks to the 150 hour test and to assess more precisely the durability of engine B and its auxiliaries.

It would also be interesting to try to optimize the injection advance of engine B to improve the combustion of palm oil and reduce consumption.

-> we are impatiently awaiting the continuation huh Bucheron

[Woodcutter]

Uh palm oil comes from the fruit and not from the trunk.



On the contrary, its use will therefore encourage reforestation!

Beu ...
I don't think ... It favors the cultivation of oil palm (monoculture) to the detriment of the tropical forest and its biodiversity ...

This bias already exists in Indonesia, and unfortunately it risks getting worse.

[Woodcutter]

Technical questions / comments related to this report:

A) Operation of motors and assemblies.

1) page 4: 2200W resistor supplied by engine generator or external source? As it is an experimental assembly I suppose external source.

Yes. It is a pity that they have not provided an exchanger with their cooling circuit.

3) page 7: pkoi the transmission reports are different?

Different engine pulleys? Anyway, the difference at the end (alternator) is 50 rpm, do you think it can create a bias?

4) page 7: load bank given at 3kw in table?

There are two adjustable benches (0,3 kW step) per alternator.

5) page 8: cetane index of palm oil of 62,5? It is much higher than Diesel (between 45 and 50). I do not see the usefulness of the comparison with the standards of rapeseed oil ... they are not the same products ..

Because rapeseed is commonly used in Europe to "oil" Diesel.

In both cases, the specific consumption is catastrophic (single cylinder of old design) but needs to be qualified by the yield from the generator which is not optimal (2% loss)? Didn't they use a 25 kW generator?

Catastrophic, well why? They find around 250 g / kwh mechanical, it's not bad, right? The most modern engines go down to 230 g / kwh (see the Twin Neander) but at what price?
For the alternator they might have only that on hand ... And anyway, the purpose of the manipulation is a comparison.

8) page 16: the efficiency of motor A tends to increase over time, that of motor B to decrease. Is this due to note 7) on valve clearances and running-in?

It is possible ... When we look, the increase in the intake intake tends to shift the cycle, and the exhaust is the same, it shifts everything ... Hence perhaps a loss by compression of the burnt gases before the exhaust phase?

[Other]

Hello

1) page 18: reduction of the setting from 180 to 160 bars. Same remark that for valve clearances -> a new "run-in" test would be interesting

It always does that with injectors freshly reassembled the sets of cups and spring washer sit on the surfaces and marries in the metal there follows a wear as if the spring was less compressed, it stabilizes after a 10 km and then gradually and slowly wear out, that's why when you disassemble an injector you have to run in certain parts it makes a mark, or refurbish everything otherwise it risks running through the return tube
Although in their case it is old model injectors

it is the same thing for the adjustment of the rocker arms with the valve tail after reassembly there is a running-in and faster wear. ) e tnormally after a 5000 km oil change we redo all this adjustment e very tightly from the cylinder head the bolts stretch.

Andre

[Christophe]

Unearthing subject!

This weekend I met the director of Codeart at a small conference I was doing on doping at the agricultural battice fair: https://www.econologie.com/forums/collaborat ... t8337.html

I was able to visit their workshop and I think I have a photo of the engine that was used to prepare the report on the combustion of palm oil: