Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by mother » 11/01/22, 10:34

Yes I understand, for us it's like that not for the richest who always take more wealth like Elon Musk ... I still think that the qi is not enough to succeed Ok jeff besos and elon musk have high qi. Others don't know, they can lie to get attention.
The capital seems more important to me. The capital surely brings about the intelligence the beauty because the rich even ugly seek es magnificent women. The economic capital it is of the inheritance of the determinism and comes from the social environment of the parents.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Rajqawee » 11/01/22, 10:48

anaya wrote:Yes I understand, for us it's like that not for the richest who always take more wealth like Elon Musk ... I still think that the qi is not enough to succeed Ok jeff besos and elon musk have high qi. Others don't know, they can lie to get attention.
The capital seems more important to me. The capital surely brings about the intelligence the beauty because the rich even ugly seek es magnificent women. The economic capital it is of the inheritance of the determinism and comes from the social environment of the parents.


Qi remains the best "predictor" of social success (even if this definition is a subjective minimum). Like any indicator, it is not perfect, but it is by far the least worst that we have.
See the interesting interventions by Jordan B Peterson on the subject.

For the rest, what are you talking about? Amounts of wealth amassed? What does this phrase "the same ugly rich look for gorgeous women" do in there?
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by humus » 11/01/22, 11:00

Rajqawee wrote:
humus wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:Well in the intellectual realm, it's the same. Certain intellectuals, scientists, philosophers, even accidentally politicians :), have shown that they can enlighten us, so it is better to refer to them rather than to the first tweet of the first person.

Everything about the organization of society, we should all be involved, since we are all part of it.
Sometimes we can be surprised by the intelligence of a tweet as we can be surprised by the stupidity of a supposedly knowing. (without his dog).
We are wrong to delegate the organization of society.
By being more interested in it, we evolve, knowing included.


Except that if we did not delegate "nothing", society as we know it would not exist, and the "greatest" decision-making level would be in the village.

Our society is a huge machine, every aspect of which no one has control. Just as the driver of a modern car does not understand its operation as a whole (or the user of his telephone), the mechanic does not master the operation of motorway flows.

So all the modern structures that we know exist only because we are able, precisely, to delegate. This is also true for social or political structures.

Agree on the finding and precisely not agree on what should be done.
We delegate too much, especially to the capitalist system to which we entrust the decision-making rules:
ecology is M ... unless it can pay off, short-term vision, no global long-term vision (Sustainability), just profit as a motor (at the cost of the degradation of the biosphere).
I call it a headless chicken.
If that's okay with you, great, me not.
It just lacks everyone's involvement. The so-called experts are only experts in the perpetuation of the headless chicken.
QI QI makes the chicken : Wink: ( I recycle : Wink: )
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Rajqawee » 11/01/22, 11:14

I do not pass judgment on what we consider to be desirable or not: there, it is for each one to express himself and our system is supposed to make an acceptable synthesis of the desires of each one (well, in the facts, it is is NOT ALL THAT!)

I'm just saying that I think even you probably don't want a company where you are involved in every decision, because it means that:
-Any infrastructure exceeding the scale of the village disappears (highways, national, aviation, train, at least 80 to 90% of energy production ...)
- therefore, any manufactured object requiring an infrastructure as mentioned before disappears (a mobile phone, a computer, an electric oven, a gas boiler, a tap from which water flows at all times ....)
- as a result, any service requiring the required precedents disappears (the technical platform of a hospital. internet.)
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by fracass » 11/01/22, 11:20

Rajqawee wrote:
Qi remains the best "predictor" of social success


It is also necessary to be motivated by "social success", and all that that implies, in particular the fact that the social success of a growing number of individuals ("social success" in the current paradigm) accelerates the scarcity of resources by a short-term view of things, is this a proof of intelligence? (I am specifying the notion of social success as our dear Western world conceives it: big car, abundant energy consumption, we take the plane as we take the bicycle,)

I would say that the best predictor of social success is the character, the state of mind in which you are, after which you have to have the means for your ambition.

to take a concrete example, according to our modern western criteria, Charpak or Pierre Gilles de Genoa have been less successful socially than Mbappé or Nabila

Note also, speaking of planes, that to continue to benefit from their slots, planes must often (especially at this time of pandemic) continue to travel empty, a good example of a decision taken by large IQs.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by humus » 11/01/22, 11:21

Rajqawee wrote:I do not pass judgment on what we consider to be desirable or not: there, it is for each one to express himself and our system is supposed to make an acceptable synthesis of the desires of each one (well, in the facts, it is is NOT ALL THAT!)

I'm just saying that I think even you probably don't want a company where you are involved in every decision, because it means that:
-Any infrastructure exceeding the scale of the village disappears (highways, national, aviation, train, at least 80 to 90% of energy production ...)
- therefore, any manufactured object requiring an infrastructure as mentioned before disappears (a mobile phone, a computer, an electric oven, a gas boiler, a tap from which water flows at all times ....)
- as a result, any service requiring the required precedents disappears (the technical platform of a hospital. internet.)

I'm not saying otherwise, I'm saying we delegate trop on essential things like the economic system, nothing less.
I'm saying the delegation dosage is wrong.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Rajqawee » 11/01/22, 11:29

fracass wrote:
Rajqawee wrote:
Qi remains the best "predictor" of social success


It is also necessary to be motivated by "social success", and all that that implies, in particular the fact that the social success of a growing number of individuals ("social success" in the current paradigm) accelerates the scarcity of resources by a short-term view of things, is this a proof of intelligence? (I am specifying the notion of social success as our dear Western world conceives it: big car, abundant energy consumption, we take the plane as we take the bicycle,)

I would say that the best predictor of social success is the character, the state of mind in which you are, after which you have to have the means for your ambition.

to take a concrete example, according to our modern western criteria, Charpak or Pierre Gilles de Genoa have been less successful socially than Mbappé or Nabila

Note also, speaking of planes, that to continue to benefit from their slots, planes must often (especially at this time of pandemic) continue to travel empty, a good example of a decision taken by large IQs.


Totally agree. But even. I am clarifying my thought.

Rather than using "capitalist" social success (wealth cluster), let's define "personal" success as the accomplishment of the individual, within his social circles. Basically, feeling competent and useful to society, socially integrated (particularly through the family, so for many spouses and children), developed and accomplished personally. And why not, let's go further with the theme you broached: the social success of the individual in his environment, including natural (therefore the place of humans in nature, their relationship with it, etc.).

Well this personal success, in our hyper-complex world, it is much more accessible to intelligent people. The divide has never been as enormous as it is now, with unbridled access to information: someone intelligent can a priori find, rather quickly, any information useful for its accomplishment. Whether it is on the places of life that interest him, the optimum temperature for rising tomato seeds, the best quality / price ratio for a mountain holiday or the mode of travel that best suits his needs, the way to lay tiles or how to progress in a particular physical activity.

So I would even say that if we define personal success instead of "classic" social success, people with high IQs are even more, more, more advantaged than those with lower scores.

@humus: ok, I believed your position to be completely binary, sorry. You are probably right, the level of delegation and centralization is too high.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Ahmed » 11/01/22, 12:26

There is some confusion in this discussion (despite the judicious clarifications provided by Humus) between technical specialization and specialization on points which concern everyone and should in no case be the subject of a delegation, in particular on the political level (I am not speaking here of political politics). Humus also raised the point of the delegation of our destinies to the economy: it is an important point because it is invisibly that the real subject is economic value, which relegates us ipso facto to the rank of mere agents. Which will be all the more rewarded the more they are in line with its self-accumulating purpose. No need for IQ, although it can help, as the last example of Rajqawee, you just need to be in the right place at the right time. Many "successes" stem from obsessions which have proved to be fruitful with regard to this criterion, while others, no more stupid, have given nothing and have disappeared from the radar screens with their wearer ...
I do not believe that the period is so favorable to the "personal realization", insofar as one takes into account only what influences positively on the individual as such, whereas if one considers the particularly degraded social environment, the results are much more nuanced. Would it be healthy to accept a culture of the ego in a generalized disintegration of the social body of which it is supposed to be part and therefore to maintain relations?
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by mother » 11/01/22, 12:38

For the rest, what are you talking about? Amounts of wealth amassed? What does this phrase "the same ugly rich look for gorgeous women" do in there?

The richer the parents, the better their education. Knowledge is more important than wealth, but wealth allows more knowledge than wisdom allows wealth Quote from a philosopher who has neither tail nor head : Mrgreen:
The rich look for a beautiful, powerful and intelligent woman, women rather marry the rich for security.
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Re: Why is today's economy not the same as yesterday?




by Rajqawee » 11/01/22, 13:02

Ahmed wrote:There is some confusion in this discussion (despite the judicious clarifications provided by Humus) between technical specialization and specialization on points which concern everyone and should in no case be the subject of a delegation, in particular on the political level (I am not speaking here of political politics). Humus also raised the point of the delegation of our destinies to the economy: it is an important point because it is invisibly that the real subject is economic value, which relegates us ipso facto to the rank of mere agents. Which will be all the more rewarded the more they are in line with its self-accumulating purpose. No need for IQ, although it can help, as the last example of Rajqawee, you just need to be in the right place at the right time. Many "successes" stem from obsessions which have proved to be fruitful with regard to this criterion, while others, no more stupid, have given nothing and have disappeared from the radar screens with their wearer ...
I do not believe that the period is so favorable to the "personal realization", insofar as one takes into account only what influences positively on the individual as such, whereas if one considers the particularly degraded social environment, the results are much more nuanced. Would it be healthy to accept a culture of the ego in a generalized disintegration of the social body of which it is supposed to be part and therefore to maintain relations?


Finally, you raise a point that is recurrent in personal fulfillment: in search of oneself, one ends up becoming too ego-centric (the dash is voluntary).

But I don't think it's inevitable. As I said, real, or complete, personal fulfillment can only be with the inclusion of the individual in groups. We are social, gregarious animals. And if the individual, in a frantic quest for himself, neglects the social aspects, he will sooner or later find himself in failure on this part of his accomplishment: no friends, no family, no partner.

So, if we admit that personal fulfillment must also go through social development, we immediately realize that the pure ego will not be enough: it will also be necessary to prove its usefulness to groups, its competence, its help, its support. , its participation. And thus the personal fulfillment of an individual will also become beneficial for the group.

I quote a baker and grain-maker friend who said: "a farm, if it is well thought out, shines: it produces more than what it consumes. It produces enough to be sufficient for itself, but also to give to others."
I think that also applies to individuals: to be able to shine (I really like this term), you have to have enough in yourself to be satisfied, first of all, and to give it to others!
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