"Well done" to some organic farmers!

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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GuyGadeboisTheBack
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 28/07/21, 16:32

Is copper toxic to soils? When copper Cu ++ is bio-available for organic matter and for pH, it is absorbed. It is when there is a problem in the soil with organic matter and ph (soils on which synthetic pesticides are spread which have killed the micro-organisms that were there) that it can no longer be absorbed. Copper can be toxic to dead soils or in the process of becoming so.

https://alerteauxtoxiques.com/2019/01/1 ... ticulture/

Copper only becomes toxic (organic) when the quantity spilled into the soil exceeds the ability of microorganisms to assimilate it. It is therefore toxic at any dose in conventional agriculture which works on almost dead substrates and it is organic when farmers use too much. It's really not difficult to understand.
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by Janic » 28/07/21, 17:06

by GuyGadeboisLeRetour »28/07/21, 15:18

This topic is NOT intended to stigmatize organic farmers. At all. It is a question of denouncing practices, which when they are abusive (whatever they are), expose (in excess) the populations to TOXIC products, whether natural or synthetic. However, it turns out that not everyone in the organic sector (industrial or not) has a light hand on copper. It's a fact, that's all.
you're not wrong, but here as elsewhere what bio are you talking about? The guy who does organic on the left and conventional on the right on the same ground, the one who has poisoned his land for decades and who goes to official organic out of opportunism or conviction, the one who has been practicing for decades as a pioneer by having selected the most robust plants, not the most productive or biodynamic and others of the same kind? So SOME in organic (sic) can choose between losing a harvest and the least bad of the solutions even if it means selling their harvest in the conventional circuit, this is what was done at the very beginning of organic with much stricter rules than official organic .
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 28/07/21, 18:21

Janic wrote: you're not wrong, but here as elsewhere what bio are you talking about?

I just wrote it to you: From one who is badly led.
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by Janic » 28/07/21, 18:48

GuyGadeboisLeRetour »28/07/21, 18:21
Janic wrote:
you're not wrong, but here as elsewhere what bio are you talking about?

I just wrote it to you: From one who is badly led.
I saw, thank you! but this is not addressed specifically to you, but to the article itself which does not distinguish anything!
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by Janic » 28/07/21, 19:28

https://www.quechoisir.org/actualite-ag ... te-n60934/
“(....) However, organic farmers are well aware that restricting the use of copper is inevitable. Gone are the days when winegrowers spread doses of 15 to 20 kg of copper per hectare on their vines, 90% of which went into the earth and made the soils sterile. Since 2002, the maximum recommended doses have fluctuated between 3 and 5 kg / ha / year. But as it stands, there is no 100% substitute. "We have partial solutions, which we should be able to put end to end", notes Marc Chovelon, of the Technical Institute of Organic Agriculture (Itab). Among them, genetics, and in particular the search for resistant varieties holds an important place. But ensuring their viability takes time. In the meantime, a number of techniques make it possible to reduce the doses of atomized copper, from essential oils to herbal teas having a cryptogamic action, through the stimulation of the natural defenses of the plant. But the effectiveness of these alternative methods remains limited. Impossible, for the moment, to do without copper.
Sensitive to these arguments, France has stepped up to the plate and asked the European Commission to authorize, in the case of perennial crops (vines, fruit trees), a limited exceeding of the maximum dose of 4 kg, as soon as the The total intake would not exceed the maximum quantity fixed over a period of 7 years. A proposal endorsed by the European Commission but which comes up against the intransigence of the countries of the North, Denmark and the Netherlands in the lead, which have banned copper for phytosanitary use. On October 23, the committee of European experts in charge of the copper re-approval file concluded with a "no decision"! A last chance meeting is taking place on November 27 in Brussels. The debates promise to be agitated.

Florence Humbert
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 28/07/21, 19:45

Using the toxicity of copper to seek to discredit organic or bio-dynamic winegrowers is a speech just as hypocritical and fallacious as that of the countries of northern Europe (Denmark, Finland, Greece, the Netherlands and Sweden) which have zero tolerance on copper, but use foliar fertilizers which contain copper which they divert from their initial function.

https://alerteauxtoxiques.com/2019/01/1 ... ticulture/
Hypocrisy of states.
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by Janic » 28/07/21, 20:06

https://alerteauxtoxiques.com/2019/01/1 ... ticulture /
article well done and which sets the record straight, the RIGHT hour!
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by izentrop » 31/07/21, 10:09

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:
Using the toxicity of copper to seek to discredit organic or bio-dynamic winegrowers is a speech just as hypocritical and fallacious as that of the countries of northern Europe (Denmark, Finland, Greece, the Netherlands and Sweden) which have zero tolerance on copper, but use foliar fertilizers which contain copper which they divert from their initial function.
https://alerteauxtoxiques.com/2019/01/1 ... ticulture/
Hypocrisy of states.
Quite credible as a reference. : Mrgreen:
For proof the work of a person who succeeded in winning a lawsuit, following the cancer of his father. Today, you know very well that any type of lawsuit can be won, as long as there is enough money to supply the legal system.
In this case, we did not protect ourselves sufficiently, vis-à-vis toxic substances concentrated during spraying, which has nothing to do with the toxicity for the soil, even less that residual on our plates, but no any amalgamation works with social networks.
GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:Copper only becomes toxic (organic) when the quantity spilled into the soil exceeds the ability of microorganisms to assimilate it. It is therefore toxic at any dose in conventional agriculture which works on almost dead substrates and it is organic when farmers use too much. It's really not difficult to understand.
Claude Bourguignon spitting out ... Another anthroposophist : Twisted:
It was you who pulled yourself away a bullet in the feet by posting this "duck" article.

It is clear that in organic they have no other alternative to fight against fungal diseases such as mildew. This year with the repeated rains, it is necessary to restart the treatments after each rain, since the Bordeaux mixture has been leached and accumulates in the soil and since it is not a degradable product.
This is how they killed soils for a long time in the Bordeaux vineyards ... Normal since the vines are particularly fragile, they need more treatment than conventional crops.

This institutionalized dogmatism is a shame because there are "synthetic products" (Oh !! the bad word : Shock: ) effective, disease-targeted and non-persistent in soils
On the ground, its half-life per photolysis reaction is 35,4 days. https://www.sagepesticides.qc.ca/Recher ... tiveID=159

Double bullet in the feet:
The "scratchy" article does not cite its sources, while the study in question does not specifically target copper, but heavy metals in general. https://www.quechoisir.org/actualite-sa ... ds-n92992/
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 31/07/21, 12:47

And the other idiot who comes to be smart by being once again beside the point, irrelevant (propamocarb ???) demonstrating his usual carelessness and his bad faith ... Pathetic Izy ... :(
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Re: "Well done" to some organic farmers!




by Biobomb » 01/08/21, 23:22

izentrop wrote:

This is how they killed soils for a long time in the Bordeaux vineyards



Jean-Marie Lespinasse, former INRA researcher well known there, and also recognized vegetable gardener, has invested a lot in order to improve the situation.
Last edited by Biobomb the 01 / 08 / 21, 23: 29, 1 edited once.
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