A world without money?

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eclectron
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 05/03/21, 09:08

ABC2019 wrote:So according to you the vast majority of the human population is ready to exhaust themselves at work, and to take risks in dangerous jobs such as miners, farmers, lumberjacks, sailors, workers on construction sites,

I just didn't say that.
without the whip of the money, most of these activities would experience a great slowdown or even a momentary stop.
I then say that the lack would make some devote themselves. An organization will be put in place to compensate for the lack if the resource is really vital.

ABC2019 wrote: without deriving any personal benefit and for the good of humanity?

is one of benefit. Don't you ever help for free? don't you get satisfaction from it?

ABC2019 wrote: And without these professions, the whole of society collapses.

It is quite possible that a certain form of society will collapse.
see episode 1 confinement where the activity was reduced to the "first chores".
Confinement aside, does it prevent you from living?
certainly not in the very long term, but this example of the 1st confinement allows us to put into perspective what is essential or not.
Then you share the essential activity equitably between all and you have a lot of free time, or a lot of more "intellectual" time.
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 05/03/21, 09:16

Ahmed wrote:Since it is for the education of simplistic minds, we might as well add a layer: not only is the activity specific to all living beings to satisfy the needs linked to their metabolism, but beyond this utilitarian aspect, this activity needs to unfold for itself: it is a need in its own right, the practice of which generates pleasure.

I would even add that making money is for some an addicting pleasure that is justified on its own.
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ABC2019
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Re: A world without money?




by ABC2019 » 05/03/21, 10:14

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:So according to you the vast majority of the human population is ready to exhaust themselves at work, and to take risks in dangerous jobs such as miners, farmers, lumberjacks, sailors, workers on construction sites,

I just didn't say that.
without the whip of the money, most of these activities would experience a great slowdown or even a momentary stop.
I then say that the lack would make some devote themselves. An organization will be put in place to compensate for the lack if the resource is really vital.

ABC2019 wrote: without deriving any personal benefit and for the good of humanity?

is one of benefit. Don't you ever help for free? don't you get satisfaction from it?

ABC2019 wrote: And without these professions, the whole of society collapses.

It is quite possible that a certain form of society will collapse.

I think you're missing out on what really happens when primary productions fall apart:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_famine_en_Chine

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_du ... hmer_rouge

all because of ideologues who had very precise ideas about what was needed for the good of the people, who promised a new world and a dream society, and who plunged them into disaster.
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 05/03/21, 11:50

ABC2019 wrote:I think you're missing out on what really happens when primary productions fall apart:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_famine_en_Chine

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_du ... hmer_rouge

all because of ideologues who had very precise ideas about what was needed for the good of the people, who promised a new world and a dream society, and who plunged them into disaster.

Caricature and simplicity, it's your business (free)
you see that you can do things for free : Mrgreen:
Do not mix all the primary .... : roll:
Personally, the mining industries may well shut down that will not prevent me from onlive.
The most critical is the food and I think that is going to be a cause for concern for people, therefore they will move their ass and not stay in a 24-hour sunbed (at first it is not comfortable, nor good. for health : Mrgreen: )

If you don't have the money to guide you, don't you think? you are not acting?
Money is your brain?
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Re: A world without money?




by ABC2019 » 05/03/21, 12:10

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:I think you're missing out on what really happens when primary productions fall apart:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_famine_en_Chine

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_du ... hmer_rouge

all because of ideologues who had very precise ideas about what was needed for the good of the people, who promised a new world and a dream society, and who plunged them into disaster.

Caricature and simplicity, it's your business (free)
you see that you can do things for free : Mrgreen:

the question is not "to do things for free", of course I do, I am even a volunteer in an association. But when I volunteer I only do what I want and with the people I want to do it with, whereas when I get paid I do what I'm paid for, even if I don't. not too pleasing (within certain limits). It makes a big difference in the end.


And the examples I am giving you are not "caricatures", they are real events, caused by the actions of people who were sure they were right.
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eclectron
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 05/03/21, 16:33

ABC2019 wrote:I am even a volunteer in an association.

among the anonymous zeteticians? Those who try to drop out! : Lol:

ABC2019 wrote:But when I volunteer, I only do what I want and with the people I want to do it with
Don't you do it better, with more fun than when you get paid? Why not do everything in this state of mind?

ABC2019 wrote: whereas when I get paid, I do what I'm paid for, even if I don't like it too much (within certain limits). It makes a big difference in the end.

It's sure to be paid to troll the forums , I wouldn't be amused either. courage, soon the WE! : Lol:
Ah ba no the WE do you volunteer?


ABC2019 wrote:And the examples I am giving you are not "caricatures", they are real events, caused by the actions of people who were sure they were right.

They are not real, they have passed.
The world has changed since.
What you list are scarecrows brandished by the liberals to scare people and say look at how capitalism and the dough is good, it is freedom and absolute fulfillment, absolute kif! : Lol:
It's basically true, just don't look sideways after all ... : roll: and then TINA .... (you forgot that one : Mrgreen: you should have put it from the start, like the second principle : Mrgreen: )
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Re: A world without money?




by ABC2019 » 05/03/21, 17:04

eclectron wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:I am even a volunteer in an association.

among the anonymous zeteticians? Those who try to drop out! : Lol:

ABC2019 wrote:But when I volunteer, I only do what I want and with the people I want to do it with
Don't you do it better, with more fun than when you get paid? Why not do everything in this state of mind?

because I don't like to do everything, for example I like to give lessons, but I don't like correcting copies, so when I do lessons on a voluntary basis I don't do an exam, it doesn't have to be 'interest. But putting notes on an exam still has a social utility that I do not dispute.

And I won't spend hours picking up other people's trash for fun, and yet, it helps.
They are not real, they have passed.

all that is real has passed. There are still plenty of African countries in catastrophic situations. What I mean is that it is not because we are sure to have a good solution that it is necessarily a good solution, so distrust is required in this kind of case, if not the consequences. can be catastrophic. And you don't really give me anything to trust in your solution, if it's all down to people's goodwill.
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eclectron
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 05/03/21, 18:54

ABC2019 wrote:[It is not because we are sure to have a good solution that it is necessarily a good solution, so distrust is required in this kind of case, otherwise the consequences can be catastrophic. And you don't really give me anything to trust in your solution, if it's all down to people's goodwill.


Just because we're both playing, me lawyer and you hell, doesn't mean I think I have one, or even THE, right solution.
Thanks to the exchange, I am looking for how this moneyless solution could work, unlike you who are looking for everything to prove that it does not work. : Lol:

Before going without money, I think that a step would be universal income, with supplement when working.
this would enhance hard work or improve the conditions to make it attractive.

For the history of the trash, there are people capable of self-sacrifice * and who have no other opportunity to help.
There are also people with intellectual limitations who are happy to have a job (recognition, status, income) but that should not be the majority by far.
therefore people undergo this work.
* I could do it if it's not too time-consuming, out of civility but obviously I have no attraction for this job.
Maybe with less pressure to return (all the money, all capitalism in the driver's seat) : Mrgreen: ), this work would be more attractive, if it allowed time for discussion with the inhabitants, a bit like with the postmen of yesteryear etc ...
In 25 years in the countryside, I have seen the difference with the postmen. No more time, musculoskeletal disorders even on young people.
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Re: A world without money?




by ABC2019 » 05/03/21, 19:16

As an economist, John Galbraith I believe, said, the difference between money and a car or a mistress is that money poses problems when you don't have it! : Mrgreen:
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Re: A world without money?




by eclectron » 06/03/21, 07:46

ABC2019 wrote:As an economist, John Galbraith I believe, said, the difference between money and a car or a mistress is that money poses problems when you don't have it! : Mrgreen:

In a world where money is the lifeblood, this is obvious.

The papuans (a fact of the past) had none of these concerns : Wink:
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