Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"

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Exnihiloest
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Exnihiloest » 24/11/20, 15:27

Rajqawee wrote:Yeah. But hey, I'm not sure that knowing the history of France helps our engineers much (eh, since that's the basic subject!) To build wind turbines or reactors ...

I think that general culture is essential, which has been implemented in institutions since the Enlightenment. For this reason, it is normally taught up to BAC (even if there is a little specialization before in technical fields). The specialization and learning of engineering comes next. It is fortunate, otherwise we would hear from many what we already hear from marginalized extreme left: "education only serves to provide the bosses with manpower". Well no. Even philosophy is taught, which does not "bring" anything to the state or the economy but will rather open minds if the teacher is competent, which is not necessarily good for the bosses, it is an understatement. :)

And then a lot of engineers when they take the bottle, branch off towards management. Unfortunately. Because it is true that the techniques often lack general culture, they get stuck in reasoning that they think is logical and which are, but in a very limited space, they do not see beyond or elsewhere for lack of general culture, which is completely penalizing when it comes to managing people.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Rajqawee » 24/11/20, 15:53

I completely agree.

We must find the right balance between providing knowledge and skills useful in the world in which we are going to live AND opening the brains as much as possible towards the sum of human knowledge.
At the very least, as I often say, you have to know that it exists, not necessarily understand it. Like that, we can come back to it if we say to ourselves that this is what we need.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 24/11/20, 15:57

I think that general culture is essential, which has been implemented in institutions since the Enlightenment. For this reason, it is normally taught up to BAC (even if there is a little specialization before in technical fields). The specialization and learning of engineering comes next. It is fortunate, otherwise we would hear from many what we already hear from marginalized extreme left: "education only serves to provide the bosses with manpower". Well no. Even philosophy is taught, which does not "bring" anything to the state or the economy but will rather open minds if the teacher is competent, which is not necessarily good for the bosses, it is an understatement.


General culture could seem useful because illiteracy closed all areas of knowledge for lack of being able to learn by oneself.
But we are in the 21st century. Sources of access to knowledge of all kinds (in an hour of documentary on art, a kid will know much more than in a succession of courses on the subject) from the minimum bases of instruction. It goes without saying that if this is only used to slump on a sofa to watch a football match, on TV, howling wolves, one (well several) beer in hand, general culture is not will not be of much use (especially since it will be long forgotten). So for one or two kids who will be happy to become adults, fuck everyone else.
The kids arrive at the baccalaureate without even knowing what they plan to do later, as there are so many uninteresting possibilities for them and they engage in precisely the least demanding sector. We should not dream and have illusions about the "educated" human being.
Even philosophy is taught, which does not "bring" anything to the state or the economy but will rather open minds if the teacher is competent, which is not necessarily good for the bosses, it is an understatement.
The big joke! Philosophy, as taught, is only an apprenticeship not to think, nor to dispute, not to diverge from the conditioning of society by asking them not to think and not to go off the rails all laid out. by the SNCF which run (or are directed rather) a company of sheep, to be sheared and devoured, if they give signs of wanting to escape from the electrified enclosure. Kind of modern Dachaux. And there are still some who fantasize about their illusions! Aren't you the one who disputes the deprivation of freedom to think ... outside the system precisely?
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Exnihiloest » 24/11/20, 16:22

Christophe wrote:
Rajqawee wrote:


It's been 20 years since I knew BHL was a big asshole (he edited it again on a show on France2 live a few weeks ago) ... but I didn't know Honfray was an idiot .. : Mrgreen:

French philosophy is definitely doing well !!

In short, very good video!

The only asshole is the one in this video. Going to blame Onfray for its blunder on the origin of the 19 in COVID, it's petty. But what do we have to do with the 19th ?! You really have to be the last of the fools to judge a guy on that kind of thing. And it's "Onfray", not "Honfray", you seem to me to know him as badly as he does.

He castigates "media" philosophers by criticizing them not on the basis of their thinking but through selection, anecdotes, lousy process, while it is clear that he too seeks notoriety as a YouTuber. If he hopes to acquire it by keeping his old teacher's quirks by giving lessons and breaking sugar on the backs of big names, like I'm the little one who is not afraid of anything, he will lose a few clients, undoubtedly not the majority which the more it is caricatural and simplet, the more it asks for more, but those which do not allow themselves to be manipulated by the insignificant in search of recognition. And I am far from being a fan of Onfray.

How can one be so devoid of moderation and so peremptorily judge others? Well when it comes to those who are like you. There may be some valid things in some of his other videos, but this one deters me from looking to see them.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Exnihiloest » 24/11/20, 16:30

Janic wrote:... The big joke! Philosophy, as taught, is only an apprenticeship not to think, nor to dispute, not to deviate from the conditioning of society ...

Free affirmation, without any reason.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 24/11/20, 16:40

Exnihiloest »24/11/20, 17:30

Janic wrote:
... The big joke! Philosophy, as taught, is only an apprenticeship not to think, nor to dispute, not to deviate from the conditioning of society ...
Free affirmation, without any reason.
Free affirmation, for no reason .... also! the reasons of some are not the reasons of others! That's philosophical!

SCHOPENHAUER
The Art of always being right!

https://www.schopenhauer.fr/oeuvres/fic ... raison.pdf

However, the debate can often be mutually beneficial when used for
sharpen the mind and correct one's own thoughts to awaken new points of view.

But the opponents must then be of equal strength whether in terms of education or
mental strength: if one lacks education, he will not understand what the other is saying to him and
will not be at the same level. If he lacks mental strength, he will become embittered and resort to
dishonest ploys, or will be rude. (.....)
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Rajqawee » 24/11/20, 16:44

Exnihiloest wrote:
Christophe wrote:[quote = "Rajqawee"

It's been 20 years since I knew BHL was a big asshole (he edited it again on a show on France2 live a few weeks ago) ... but I didn't know Honfray was an idiot .. : Mrgreen:

French philosophy is definitely doing well !!

In short, very good video!

The only asshole is the one in this video. Going to blame Onfray for its blunder on the origin of the 19 in COVID, it's petty. But what do we have to do with the 19th ?! You really have to be the last of the fools to judge a guy on that kind of thing. And it's "Onfray", not "Honfray", you seem to me to know him as badly as he does.

He castigates "media" philosophers by criticizing them not on the basis of their thinking but through selection, anecdotes, lousy process, while it is clear that he too seeks notoriety as a YouTuber. If he hopes to acquire it by keeping his old teacher's quirks by giving lessons and breaking sugar on the backs of big names, like I'm the little one who is not afraid of anything, he will lose a few clients, undoubtedly not the majority which the more it is caricatural and simplet, the more it asks for more, but those which do not allow themselves to be manipulated by the insignificant in search of recognition. And I am far from being a fan of Onfray.

How can one be so devoid of moderation and so peremptorily judge others? Well when it comes to those who are like you. There may be some valid things in some of his other videos, but this one deters me from looking to see them.


Ben ... you will recognize that it is a little embarrassing to have written an entire book on the subject of COVID, like Onfray, and not to know that the 19th which is attached to it corresponds to the year of its discovery no ? Doesn't that show a great seriousness of the study of the question?
He does not judge only on this detail, moreover. He says that the speeches of philosophers who appear on TV shows, on COVID, can be boiled down to:
- you have to die of something
-we have seen worse

Which isn't really the pinnacle of philosophical thinking, it seems to me, since that's what you can hear anyone say about anything.

After yes, the process is very Youtubesque, with memes, edits, cut, etc.
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Janic » 24/11/20, 16:54

Which isn't really the pinnacle of philosophical thinking, it seems to me, since that's what you can hear anyone say about anything.
philosophy does not exclude a certain fatalism or quite simply a historical reality. This is not indifference, however!
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by pedrodelavega » 24/11/20, 21:00

S Trotta, asso "common sense", once again cruelly lacking:
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Re: Etienne Klein: "Engineers, frankly, we don't hear them much"




by Christophe » 25/11/20, 06:00

Are there more than 2% of patients since it is 20% unless Klein talks about 2% at the hospital ??

On the same account we find:

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