Are "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens?

[Paul72]

The fact remains that, as Iz says, this kind of production can only be done in a particular soil context. It can be perfect in the middle of cities built on alluvial lands, to bring vitamins at hand. The advantage of large cereal crops is that they can be placed on even shallow soils with little useful water reserve.

[VetusLignum]

The fact remains that, as Iz says, this kind of production can only be done in a particular soil context. It can be perfect in the middle of cities built on alluvial lands, to bring vitamins at hand. The advantage of large cereal crops is that they can be placed on even shallow soils with little useful water reserve.

Maybe you should see it plant by plant, but for my part, I think this kind of crop is much more resilient than cereals. Grain fields on poor, shallow soil grow with difficulty without fertilizers or irrigation; and agroforestry is also one of the avenues envisaged to remedy this. Forests can grow on all soils, even the most ungrateful (if it rains enough); the same cannot be said of cereals.

[Moindreffor]

I observe that you don't like anything that doesn't come from did67.

I follow the same logic as Didier because I understand it, I practice it and I see the results
I see that every time you come up with a quick fix and we don't agree with you, you come up with the same argument

sorry for not always agreeing with the so called new ways of gardening, are the title you put "forest gardens" the future of our vegetable gardens, is that okay i say no,

the new detached houses in the countryside are built on 5 to 600 m² if we remove the surface of the house, it will remain 3 to 400m² of land knowing that the legislation prohibits planting trees over 2m high within 2m of the fence with the neighbor. where do you want to install these "forest gardens"?

that there are I want them although they are certainly not the future, just do a simple calculation? if you want to convince me, make a ratio between the surface of the "garden-forests", the number of people that it feeds, and the French population, of the southern half, (it will not work in the North) widens to all of France and tell me if it's possible, and if it is, we can talk about the future

by my house they say, a cow from afar always has big magpies,

[Moindreffor]

but the Cardon's garden at Mouscon is not one, and it produces.

how much does it produce? with what labor and on what surface?
for it to be the future that's what you have to take into account

[sicetaitsimple]

At this level it is no longer agroforestry, it is just intended for tourists, it speaks of arboretum, they charge for visits, plus contributions and perhaps subsidies ... Commercial also with the sale of plants.
I don't think there's any deception, it's just a fairytale for city dwellers, an amusement park.

I agree with Izentrop. It is basically an arboretum in the making (for about ten years now), but why not? The type seems competent and passionate, if he manages to live by visits, sales of plants (we see 3 greenhouses in aerial photos), ... etc ..., so much the better. Being aware that this cannot be generalized as a model, it is the first to arrive in a corner that will attract interested people and tourists.

To live by the production of food, I have big doubts ..... The "young shoots", "young leaves", "wild berries" and others of which he speaks, that can be nice occasionally on the plate , but hey ... There may be some outlets in somewhat innovative restaurateurs, but here too it remains limited geographically.

In short, from my point of view, a "model" which can only live by its originality, and therefore not generalizable, to answer the title of the thread.

[VetusLignum]

the new detached houses in the countryside are built on 5 to 600 m² if we remove the surface of the house, it will remain 3 to 400m² of land knowing that the legislation prohibits planting trees over 2m high within 2m of the fence with the neighbor. where do you want to install these "forest gardens"?

The problem of legislation is a good argument. We are not legally and culturally ready for forest gardens. But that can quickly change.

but the Cardon's garden at Mouscon is not one, and it produces.

how much does it produce? with what labor and on what surface?
for it to be the future that's what you have to take into account

It is relatively large (1800 m2), and produces more than they need (I can't say how many people they could feed).
https://www.doc-developpement-durable.o ... uscron.pdf
https://www.permaculturedesign.fr/jardi ... ne-cardon/
http://veille-permaculturelle.fr/agricu ... ouvrieres/

[VetusLignum]

To live by the production of food, I have big doubts ..... The "young shoots", "young leaves", "wild berries" and others of which he speaks, that can be nice occasionally on the plate , but hey ... There may be some outlets in somewhat innovative restaurateurs, but here too it remains limited geographically.

Yes, that is the main obstacle for me. But common vegetables today like tomatoes and potatoes were not adopted instantly in our crops. And then there is undoubtedly the possibility of better domesticating certain species (of creating better varieties for them).

Until the mid-sixteenth century, the potato, considered more as a medicine than a food, will remain confined around convents, royal courtyards, botanical gardens, and Europe will have to undergo the many shortages and the wars which will overwhelm it during the XVIIth century and XVIIIth century so that its culture and its consumption, remedies for famines, develop in spite of the prejudices and the superstitions which are attached to it.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_ ... _en_Europe

[Ahmed]

... and it will be necessary that Europe undergoes the numerous famines and the wars which will overwhelm it during the XVIIth century and XVIIIth century so that its culture and its consumption, remedies for famines, develop in spite of the prejudices and the superstitions which are attached to it.

Like what, the stomach has its reasons that "reason" ignores ...

[sicetaitsimple]

Yes, that is the main obstacle for me. But common vegetables today like tomatoes and potatoes were not adopted instantly in our crops. And then there is undoubtedly the possibility of better domesticating certain species (of creating better varieties for them). [

Yes, but the potato nourishes it. And the tomato is often excellent on its own, at least in season, and it is done in all ways (cooked, raw, in sauce, as an accompaniment, ...).
The young shoots, young leaves, or wild berries of various plants, it nourishes rather little in general and it is rarely excellent when you make it your main course. It's different in a mix where it can actually bring a little originality and "peps".

[Moindreffor]

the new detached houses in the countryside are built on 5 to 600 m² if we remove the surface of the house, it will remain 3 to 400m² of land knowing that the legislation prohibits planting trees over 2m high within 2m of the fence with the neighbor. where do you want to install these "forest gardens"?

The problem of legislation is a good argument. We are not legally and culturally ready for forest gardens. But that can quickly change.it is especially the price of land that limits, 1 or 2 ha of land in a poor and sparsely populated department, it seems, that seems to install that in the city so there certainly no future, Didier had calculated for us the price of a kilo of green beans produced on the green roofs of Paris, € 3500 / kg, if that's the future

but the Cardon's garden at Mouscon is not one, and it produces.

how much does it produce? with what labor and on what surface?
for it to be the future that's what you have to take into account

It is relatively large (1800 m2), and produces more than they need (I can't say how many people they could feed).
as we can say more than what they need without knowing how much it represents of person, we are known 1ha for a self-sufficiency for a family of 4 people, and there 1 800 m² so we are on a partial contribution, and which therefore absolutely not generalizable,
I remind you that I answer as Sicetaitsimple did on the title "gardens-forests" the future of our vegetable gardens, in all that I land of 1800 m² by my house, you have to buy 2 or even 3 plots, so no, this is not the future, an amusement park, an arboretum, a curiosity, a garden like any visitable garden
https://www.doc-developpement-durable.o ... uscron.pdf
https://www.permaculturedesign.fr/jardi ... ne-cardon/
http://veille-permaculturelle.fr/agricu ... ouvrieres/

I will look at the links to the working fraternity because I know well
the title would have been different, I would have answered differently