Coronaviruses survive in drinking water for more than 100 days ...

[Obamot]

Indeed...

Could many countries do this?

https://www.admin.ch/gov/fr/accueil/documentation/communiques.msg-id-78966.html

I think it should be done for issues of control and legal responsibility. To trace the neighborhoods where there is drug use, it already exists,

[GuyGadebois]

If these traces of RNA are actually found in wastewater, how do they (from traces, therefore) differentiate between the multitude of existing coronaviruses? Is it specified?

[Obamot]

If these traces of RNA are actually found in wastewater, how do they (from traces, therefore) differentiate between the multitude of existing coronaviruses? Is it specified?

... there I fear that ... I had previously suggested that, to go in the same direction as you:

[...] to solve this mystery [...] it is necessary [...] 2) to have virus in sufficiently good state to sequence it

Possible by a detail that we ignore, if not degraded.

[GuyGadebois]

So much uncertainty that ...

[Christophe]

If these traces of RNA are actually found in wastewater, how do they (from traces, therefore) differentiate between the multitude of existing coronaviruses? Is it specified?

Uh I think that is the basis of their work, to have checked if the RNA sequence was specific to Sars-Cov2 ...

But from what I understood it was a simple PCR test !! Which is far from being 100% reliable.

I still haven't read the paper and I don't know if they've done RNA confirmation sequencing ...

So no panic there is a GREAT chance that this is a false positive ...

[Christophe]

Uh ...https://www.levif.be/actualite/belgique ... 53455.html

The spokesperson for the Crisis Center, Yves Van Laethem, gives trivial advice for stop the spread of the virus: lower ... your toilet plank before flushing.

(...)

Yves Van Laethem insists at length on the importance of room ventilation and gives advice on ... the use of toilets. "The virus passes through the digestive tract and can cause diarrhea, he says. We give this somewhat funny advice: in a shared toilet at the office or at home, you must close the plank before flushing to avoid the spread. microparticles. These are a little trivial details, but it can help us continue to generate relatively positive news. "

[izentrop]

You corrected in the meantime.
We can think that the "bubbling" of the hunt causes micro droplets which risk diffusing into the ambient air.
Shutting down closed, they remain confined so to speak

[Christophe]

The question is whether the virus comes from our excretions or ... water or both!

In the second case, that would relaunch this debate!

[izentrop]

The faeces are more likely to contain a contaminating viral load.
It seems to me that the analyzes of water only give information on traces of RNA useful for statistics, but not contaminating.

It is in wastewater that we find it https://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-radi ... 38313.html

in wastewater, we look for traces of the virus, its RNA and not its DNA, and once these traces are measured, we can say that it has been there, but on the other hand its dangerousness has not been proven . "

[Christophe]

Covid-19: Obépine observatory tracks the virus in wastewater

Obépine, the epidemiological wastewater observatory, monitors the presence of Covid-19 in the water of wastewater treatment plants in France. People with Covid-19, symptomatic or not, excrete the virus in their stool, which is found in these waters.

In our departments, five cities have integrated Obépine: Reims and Château-Thierry in April 2020, Charleville-Mézières in December, Saint-Quentin in January and Châlons-en-Champagne in February. Ultimately, 150 cities will integrate it. Since January 25, Obépine has been publishing virus concentration indicators in our stations on its website.

Funded to the tune of 3 million euros by the State via the Ministry of Research, Obépine was founded by the CNRS, the University of Paris-Sorbonne and the Eaux de Paris in April 2020. Eight laboratories are now part of the network .

Epidemic requires, gloves and glasses are required. But in the maneuver, which we imagined sharp and high-tech, Yannic Ambolet needs above all ... a ladle. Twice a week, the person in charge of the Charleville-Mézières wastewater treatment plant manually takes samples of wastewater. Sent to a Parisian laboratory, they will be analyzed to detect traces of Covid-19.


Like Reims, Château-Thierry or Châlons-en-Champagne, and eventually 150 cities, the capital of the Ardennes has integrated the Obépine analysis and surveillance network, the epidemiological observatory for wastewater. Excreted in the stool, the virus is detectable in sewage water. Obépine makes it possible to detect in real time the presence of the virus of an entire population, sick or not. For the Charleville-Mézières resort, this is the equivalent of 117 inhabitants!

How does it work?

At the entrance to the Charleville-Mézières wastewater treatment plant, a pump takes samples from the wastewater at regular intervals for 24 hours, explains Yannic Ambolet. 125 ml of this sample are extracted twice a week and then sent for analysis to one of the laboratories of the Obépine network. It takes an average of four days to get results. It is simply a matter of detecting the genome of Sars-Cov-2, the viral RNA. However, four protocols exist in order to refine the result.

By concentrating the virus (by filtration, centrifugation or precipitation), "the result is more stable, less sensitive" according to Mr. Gantzer. Obépine does not deliver the raw value of the viral concentration. This data passes through the caudine forks of a software which makes it possible to take into account various parameters. The pH of the water, the flow to see if there has not been dilution in the event of heavy rains for example, bacteriology ... can falsify the result. Ultimately, it is an indicator resulting from this modeling and between 0 and 150 which is delivered.

A formidable crisis management tool set up and fully funded by the State. Except that locally, the health authorities do not care. And assume it. For Guillaume Mauffré, delegate of the regional health agency (ARS) in the Ardennes, “this is a network with a research vocation”. His counterpart from Marne, Thierry Alibert, wants to be more decided: “There is no consensus between epidemiologists. They do not agree among themselves on the taking into account of surface water, the differences in concentration in one place but not in another… It is quite random, from what I could understand from the discussions . "

Stung to the quick, Christophe Gantzer, virologist and director of the LCPME research laboratory in Nancy, which is part of the Obépine network, thwarts this trial: “We have largely passed the research stage. The interest is demonstrated, the protocol proven. We have shared it with eight laboratories now. We deliver the information to the ministries concerned, the scientific council and the defense council consult them. Because we have selected the cities on some twenty criteria to be fairly representative. The scientist puts forward two key arguments. First of all, this indicator “makes it possible to cover the entire population in a single measurement. Where the incidence or positivity rate is only based on people who get tested. Everyone goes to the bathroom, including the asymptomatic. "

The whole population is taken into account

As a result, the presence of Covid-19 in wastewater not only makes it possible to monitor but also to predict an epidemic outbreak. “From July, when the virus was in very low concentration, we observed a rise in some cities, before the increase in the incidence rate. We have seen a rise in Ile-de-France, heralding the second wave of autumn. "

In Charleville-Mézières, while the incidence rate was down sharply in early February, there was an increase in the presence of Covid-19 in wastewater

And in Charleville-Mézières, the first results seem to prove its predictive value. The president of Ardenne Métropole is convinced of its relevance: “The last two deliveries (February 8 and 15, editor's note) while our incidence rate was down sharply, indicated in a relevant way, that we were going to live for a while. further increase in the incidence rate. And this is indeed what we saw a few days later. "Boris Ravignon did not hesitate to rely on this indicator to" obtain from the competent authorities, for example from the start of the school year, a massive screening in schools ", he announced.

Christophe Gantzer, environmental virologist: "We are eight to ten days ahead of the incidence rate"

You are director of the LCPME research laboratory at the University of Lorraine, attached to the Obépine network. When is this indicator the most effective?

This tool is predictive. This has been demonstrated in the 120 cities that we now monitor. This is particularly the case for an epidemic upsurge. Because asymptomatic people have a bowel movement, and because the virus is found there before the onset of symptoms in patients. We are eight to ten days ahead of the incidence rate. It is less predictive in the event of a descent. In fact, it's later, because the virus continues to be shed when the symptoms are gone. Or when containment or curfew measures are put in place, by the time they take effect, the contaminations have already taken place, making new patients who excrete the virus.

Can we really do micro-detection and forecasting, at the scale of a neighborhood for example?

Street by street, leaving an nursing home… Yes, there is potential. But what value will this data have? A building of 40 people, for example. Everyone will have to flush the toilet at the same time. It will be punctual and we will only be able to look at the viral concentration, that does not mean much because the environment and the context influence enormously. This is why we give an indicator from 0 to 150. It is not the raw concentration but an indicator which has been developed, by modeling, by mathematicians in order to take into account a bunch of criteria: the pH of the water, the quantity which can dilute if it has rained for example the viral presence, temperatures… Some municipalities have commissioned private laboratories to study the concentration of viruses, but that does not mean anything. We can do anything and make anyone say anything.

Are you able to detect variants?

We are able to follow the English variant. For the other variants, we are in the process of setting up the methods.

As for the ARS, we remain cautious on the predictive aspect. Without excluding a closer look, the delegates explained above all that this indicator "is not part of any operational strategy". Clearly, the Ministry of Health has not yet provided the instructions for use.

“There is no operational character, no strategy has been developed. In the storm that is ours, flooded with information, I prefer to keep simple landmarks, my sextant and my compass and try to see the light of the lighthouse in the open sea ”, pleads Mr. Alibert. In this case, the triptych of incidence, positivity and occupancy rate of intensive care beds. On this point, the virologist does not find fault with the health authorities. “There is no question of saying that it is the only relevant indicator. It is part of an interesting data landscape. "

Posted on 9 / 03 / 2021 to 23: 05
By Manessa TERRIEN with Thierry de LESTANG PARADE and Caroline GARNIER
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