Coronavirus, who or what and why? What origin?

[VetusLignum]

It has been said a lot that the scenario of a natural evolution was not founded at present, for lack of intermediate forms of the virus.
Well here is a new study, according to which SARS-CoV2 started in Guangdong in September 2019.
Note that in Guangdong, there is trade in pangolins (which would have allowed the fusion of bat and pangolin viruses), and it is also where SARS-CoV1 started.
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202005.0332/v2

Note also that this hypothesis had already been mentioned before.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... e-of-wuhan

The assumption of the Huanan wholesale seafood market as a starting point had not held up for a long time; this study perhaps gives us "hypothesis B".
But I don't think it will last very long either.

[izentrop]

Pre-prints, articles not peer reviewed, nothing serious my pov virtues

[Obamot]

Pre-prints, articles not peer reviewed, nothing serious my pov virtues

Because you, the defamatory comments you make here:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post401388.html#p401388

... may have been peer reviewed perhaps?

[VetusLignum]

Given the political stakes, many pre-prints can be found not validated because their conclusions disturb.
So it is worth looking at them, while taking them carefully.

[GuyGadebois]

Pre-prints, articles not peer reviewed, nothing serious my pov virtues

What are pre-prints validated by corrupt crooks?

[VetusLignum]

2 new studies for an alternative natural evolution scenario:
1) SARS-CoV2 was already present in its current form or almost (with the possibility of infecting humans) in 2013 in the mine
2) It has been circulating among humans for years, but without symptoms (and therefore, unnoticed), and it is a recent development that would have made it symptomatic
In common with these 2 articles, the idea that the possibility of infecting humans is not an evolution that could be done quickly in a few weeks.
Note that such a scenario could explain the existence of immunity in part of the population.
https://graph.org//RaTG13-Coinfection-06-22
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf

[Christophe]

Interesting but the second is only based on computer simulations ... So these may be clues but not evidence (proof that we may never find ...)

[VetusLignum]

Interesting but the second is only based on computer simulations ... So these may be clues but not evidence (proof that we may never find ...)

Yes, we have only hypotheses for the moment.

Note however that if there had been an asymptomatic strain (ancestor) of SARS-CoV2, I think it would still be circulating, and that this would have been identified, if only because of the numerous tests of SARS -CoV2 performed worldwide in recent months.

Another hypothesis raised in the second article, which I did not mention because I do not believe in it, is that the affinity for hACE2 receptors is not sufficient to infect humans, and that another component genetics allowing the infection would have appeared recently. I don't believe it, because
1) I tell myself that if there was another factor, other researchers would have identified it
2) The affinity for hACE2 receptors would then have been useless for many years from an evolutionary point of view, and therefore, I do not see why it would have been transmitted.

[Obamot]

Interesting but the second is only based on computer simulations ... So these may be clues but not evidence (proof that we may never find ...)

Yes, we have only hypotheses for the moment.

Note however that if there had been an asymptomatic strain (ancestor) of SARS-CoV2, I think it would still be circulating, and that this would have been identified, if only because of the numerous tests of SARS -CoV2 performed worldwide in recent months.

Another hypothesis raised in the second article, which I did not mention because I do not believe in it, is that the affinity for hACE2 receptors is not sufficient to infect humans, and that another component genetics allowing the infection would have appeared recently. I don't believe it, because
1) I tell myself that if there was another factor, other researchers would have identified it
2) The affinity for hACE2 receptors would then have been useless for many years from an evolutionary point of view, and therefore, I do not see why it would have been transmitted.

Admitting this hypothesis (very interesting from the ancestor of the virus that infected bats and not the other way around) how could it be that the phylogenetic tree did not provide information on this point, since until then researchers seemed unanimous => Chinese virus => fallacy of the start of the epidemic from China: all this shatters ...! and it's not to displease me ...

Could it be that researchers have manipulated one of these ancestors, without even imagining how dangerous they were (or conversely, would have precisely manipulated this virus since knowing that this would constitute a perfect concealment as to its real origin? ... => in order to create a “demographic weapon” ...)? We are not far from the initial certainties!

It seems to me less and less obvious that research on this type of virus (which is known and which exists) would be purely fortuitous and of an interest exclusively of “fundamental research” (without any ulterior motive ...)

This hypothesis does not explain either the presence of HIV strands concentrated in the same segment, nor the fact that it gave the virus an exceptional potential for contamination, other than by the fact that the virus was manipulated (unless 'an incredible bad luck and statistically / temporally very improbable ...).

On the other hand, what strongly supports this hypothesis is the fact that the pandemic started at a time when the bats are in hibernation, which makes the “western hypothesis” of an initial outbreak in Wuhan very suspect, as soon as departure! Aside from being out of the P4 lab co-funded by the USA, I never believed it ...

[sicetaitsimple]

We are far from the initial certainties!

I get lost in guesswork about the meaning of this sentence ????

Unless the answer is " And then how to give credit to a guy unable to write in French correctly "?

health-pollution-prevention / resignation-of-dr-raoult-supporter-of-chloroquine-from-scientific-advice-covid19-t16370-1970.html