State of mind for a viable future

[Ahmed]

What is created from a loan is the promise of a corresponding future amount of work, so as the promise is fulfilled, it shrinks and vanishes since the value qu 'she represented now exists "inside" a concrete wealth ...
I know it is not intuitive, but it is so.

[eclectron]

What is created from a loan is the promise of a corresponding amount of future work

1) and pepets allowing exchanges of goods and services, right? does the loan not create one?
2) and without this system, there would still be pepets in circulation and figures on the books of accounts?

You have the right to say things in such a way as to make them complex to understand for the average person and to ignore the simplicity of the basic facts ...

Answers to the quiz
1) Of course if he creates any money in circulation is debt, even savings. All this cash money, without the perpetual loan system, is doomed to disappear from the planet.
2) absolutely not, zero, nada except coins and banknotes.

It's still crazy this refusal to see the basic evidence for someone who claims to know!
Finally I think I prefer the Liberals!
no I'm kidding.
but still....

[ABC2019]

It is not worth polluting the subject with questions that you have nothing to do.

Apparently I have a knack for asking questions that we don't want to answer! good then the beautiful electric cars produced to use nuclear energy, we give them to whom, and in what order, for you? will still have to decide one day!

What do you think this free money could be used for?
Perhaps a link with the current situation?

I don't understand your question, what do you call free money?

[ENERC]

Answers to the quiz
1) Of course if he creates any money in circulation is debt, even savings. All this cash money, without the perpetual loan system, is doomed to disappear from the planet.
2) absolutely not, zero, nada except coins and banknotes.

It's 1.

In addition we are smoked with the ECB, but the debts of the ECB are spread over the national banks. So it is the Banque de France that has a part of it.
And even if we break the euro, the Banque de France will have its big debt ball.

[Ahmed]

I complete my sentence which I had abbreviated: "What is created from a loan is, through a quantity of cash, the promise of a corresponding quantity of future work ..."
It seemed obvious to me, but this second, more "heavy" version is also more educational ...

[eclectron]

I complete my sentence which I had abbreviated: "What is created from a loan is, through a quantity of cash, the promise of a corresponding quantity of future work ..."
It seemed obvious to me, but this second, more "heavy" version is also more educational ...

Would we go so far as to pull a "we agree" from you?
I think we are finally.
It's your way of responding that is confusing, at home anyway. (do not abound on the essentials and comment as if your comment called into question the essentials)

So to sum up:
Inherently money as practiced around the world is absolutely not neutral.
It requires perpetual economic growth and therefore leads to the destruction of the world (biotope), just so that we have a tool for exchanging basic goods and services. Tool called money.

We can say the same thing about capitalism: Requires (is) perpetual economic growth and therefore leads to the destruction of the world (biotope) and say that money is the daughter.

But on the subject of money, I find it particularly perverse that we are locked in this destructive system of biotope and humans (you have to see what to do to "earn" it), just so that we can exchange goods. and basic services.
While money should in theory be as neutral as possible.

It is absolutely necessary to do otherwise for trade, for the world to be sustainable in the fact of existing, in the fact that it is viable.
And of course, "sustainable" not in the sense of "continuing to be the same as the current world," since it is not sustainable.

[ABC2019]

So to sum up:
Inherently money as practiced around the world is absolutely not neutral.
It requires perpetual economic growth:

proof that no, we will probably be decreasing this year, and the currency has not disappeared and will not disappear ..

[eclectron]

Apparently I have a knack for asking questions that we don't want to answer! good then the beautiful electric cars produced to use nuclear energy, we give them to whom, and in what order, for you? will still have to decide one day!

What do you think this free money could be used for?
Perhaps a link with the current situation?

I don't understand your question, what do you call free money?

I also have to explain your questions to you now or is it a memory problem?

It was you who wanted a free Ferrari (then a Tesla because you forgot you were green), following the post about the fact that it is envisaged that the ECB will create * money and donate it?

* it's not very complicated, + 100bn on an excellent table!

[eclectron]

So to sum up:
Inherently money as practiced around the world is absolutely not neutral.
It requires perpetual economic growth:

proof that no, we will probably be decreasing this year, and the currency has not disappeared and will not disappear ..

Oh you tire me, you don't understand anything! *
* because you already pointed this out to me in the past ...

Have you read and understood this example?
Disaster-human-natural / state-of-mind-in-a-future-viable-t16249-610.html # p389498

and to answer you, the money supply is a lake.
stop all the rivers that feed the lake. (stop new loans)
still consume as much water from the lake. (repayment of formerly contracted loans)
Of course there is still water in the lake for a while.
The time will come when it will be dry (all the loans will be repaid ...)

Nature helped by humans, offers us a good example: the Aral Sea.

[Ahmed]

Money cannot be the neutral instrument of exchange that many want to see in it. This for lots of technical reasons which hide the essential: it refers, not to a monetary "creation" of the bank, but to an abstract value which is one of the major categories of capitalism. This concept of value is at the same time very familiar, insofar as no one seems to wonder about it, and if it does, finds itself in front of a mystery greater than that of the Trinity! It is linked to the category, which is also specific to the work from which it (the concept of value) derives. Only certain types of work produce value and only according to the quantity socially necessary ... From this flow a lot of the consequences that you deplore ...
It is on the value and its extrinsic significance that the attention must be paid and not on the role, supposedly initiator, of the bank: monetary creation is the act of the borrower and not that of the bank which only plays the role of a "trusted third party" responsible for regulating the proper execution of the borrower's commitment to provide the quantity of work corresponding to the sum advanced ...

ABC2019, you write:

Well, proof that no, we will probably be decreasing this year, and the currency has not disappeared and will not disappear.

Of course, but capital is structurally bound to growth, when this is not the case, it no longer fulfills its operating condition and is in crisis. To which he will have to find solutions, otherwise the system will collapse ...
The lakeEclectron is not filled with loans, but with work-value, which is very different (the loan being only one of its modalities in the form of anticipated work-value).