"Saving" the planet or the climate: what is fashion telling us?

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Ahmed
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"Saving" the planet or the climate: what is fashion telling us?




by Ahmed » 30/10/18, 14:22

The title I chose is intended deliberately ironic, as one can imagine ... (I specify it only for the bad-understanding!) : Mrgreen:

The role of those who organize the destruction of the world, from which they derive their power, is to make believe to the mass of more and more considerable of those who realize that there is no causal link between these two phenomena. Thanks to the media, the dominant ones have a nice game to maintain a cognitive dissonance that causes confusion: the collateral damage would be the fact that excesses or circumstantial abuses that would be easily solved by some measures or adapted reforms.
Thus was born the extraordinary concept (if one thinks about it well) of "sustainable development": this oxymoron makes clear the claimed possibility of a continuation of the growth without the preceding problems. The slogan "save the planet", absurd as it may be, corresponded well to this desire to scramble the message by generalizing and de-dramatizing it in such a way that it lost all its meaning; However, it is not the container that is threatened, but rather what it contains.

It was not enough, however, to simply let go of all structural responsibility in this way: in the current state of the economy, it is imperative to find new possibilities to profitably invest the enormous accumulation of capital. This is why, faithful to a completely classic strategy, the economic system has endeavored to turn to its advantage the criticisms which are (moderately!) Addressed to it. The recent concern for a more circumscribed threat (the increase in atmospheric CO² and the global warming that it induces) that the media echo abundantly reflects a clear desire to make the damage profitable by means of a gigantic deployment of equipment supposed to remedy it. . It is obviously the energy sector which is directly concerned with the intensification of a reconversion towards "green" energies, or at least with low greenhouse gas emissions (the other aspects? We will deal with them later ! : roll: ). We know the details of the operation: wind turbines, photovoltaics, biomass and electric vehicles, etc ...; this does not exclude geo-engineering, but nothing very conclusive in the matter for the moment. In short, all these reconversions are presented as substituting for fossil fuels, when in fact they will be added **, as has always been the case in the past. It is in fact improperly to distinguish periods * corresponding to the various energies that would have succeeded one another: in reality, the appearance and development of a new form of energy did not eliminate the recourse to those which preceded it. : largely cumulative rather than exclusive process.
It is this idea of ​​accentuating this mutation which is at the origin of the "marches for the climate", carefully instrumentalised and this in order to obtain the widest possible adhesion with the abused civil society and which will constitute ultimately the obligatory contributor of the manna of subsidies which, alone, will make these operations profitable. Who will refuse to put his hand in the pocket for a transition demanded loudly? This is the genius of the ultimate maneuver, which will consist in transfiguring a defeat into a democratic victory ...

* The age of wood, coal, oil ...
** As shown, for example, clearly the current level of coal consumption that has never been so high.
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by izentrop » 30/10/18, 17:19

Your beliefs are etched in the marble and nothing will change, so why discuss it :?: : Mrgreen:
I guess you agree with that?
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by Bardal » 30/10/18, 17:59

Ahmed wrote:The title I chose is intended deliberately ironic, as one can imagine ... (I specify it only for the bad-understanding!) : Mrgreen:

The role of those who organize the destruction of the world, from which they derive their power, is to make believe to the mass of more and more considerable of those who realize that there is no causal link between these two phenomena. Thanks to the media, the dominant ones have a nice game to maintain a cognitive dissonance that causes confusion: the collateral damage would be the fact that excesses or circumstantial abuses that would be easily solved by some measures or adapted reforms.
Thus was born the extraordinary concept (if one thinks about it well) of "sustainable development": this oxymoron makes clear the claimed possibility of a continuation of the growth without the preceding problems. The slogan "save the planet", absurd as it may be, corresponded well to this desire to scramble the message by generalizing and de-dramatizing it in such a way that it lost all its meaning; However, it is not the container that is threatened, but rather what it contains.

It was not enough, however, to simply let go of all structural responsibility in this way: in the current state of the economy, it is imperative to find new possibilities to profitably invest the enormous accumulation of capital. This is why, faithful to a completely classic strategy, the economic system has endeavored to turn to its advantage the criticisms which are (moderately!) Addressed to it. The recent concern for a more circumscribed threat (the increase in atmospheric CO² and the global warming that it induces) that the media echo abundantly reflects a clear desire to make the damage profitable by means of a gigantic deployment of equipment supposed to remedy it. . It is obviously the energy sector which is directly concerned with the intensification of a reconversion towards "green" energies, or at least with low greenhouse gas emissions (the other aspects? We will deal with them later ! : roll: ). We know the details of the operation: wind turbines, photovoltaics, biomass and electric vehicles, etc ...; this does not exclude geo-engineering, but nothing very conclusive in the matter for the moment. In short, all these reconversions are presented as substituting for fossil fuels, when in fact they will be added **, as has always been the case in the past. It is in fact improperly to distinguish periods * corresponding to the various energies that would have succeeded one another: in reality, the appearance and development of a new form of energy did not eliminate the recourse to those which preceded it. : largely cumulative rather than exclusive process.
It is this idea of ​​accentuating this mutation which is at the origin of the "marches for the climate", carefully instrumentalised and this in order to obtain the widest possible adhesion with the abused civil society and which will constitute ultimately the obligatory contributor of the manna of subsidies which, alone, will make these operations profitable. Who will refuse to put his hand in the pocket for a transition demanded loudly? This is the genius of the ultimate maneuver, which will consist in transfiguring a defeat into a democratic victory ...

* The age of wood, coal, oil ...
** As shown, for example, clearly the current level of coal consumption that has never been so high.



It's probably more than a hundred times that you explain this to us, Ahmed ... Maybe more, I have not read everything ...

You may be in the right, but at no time do you indicate even one direction to break the impasse. It is desperate and hopeless, like all melancholy delirium, which leads in a rigorously logical way to individual or collective suicide.

Where do you want to take us?
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Ahmed
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by Ahmed » 30/10/18, 18:28

@
Bardal

The problem is not so much the direction to follow (I had recently responded to Eclectron in this regard) that the clear perception of what prevents us from doing so or else, and this was the meaning of my message, of what deviates us from this purpose.

@ Izentrop
You make mistake on both points: - my beliefs are written in chalk on a slate and, consequently, have evolved a lot; my previous convictions inclined me to consider with a certain indulgence many considerations that proved to be false: I had a tendency to want to believe the beautiful stories that are everywhere widespread, even if in my heart of hearts I have never been totally fooled (despite everything, like everyone else I was cheated on some points, out of ignorance).
- I'm afraid you did not understand my point, yet I had explained it recently on another thread: in this complex system, what must be considered is the set of consequences and their interactions and not focus on one that would serve as a convenient screen for others.

Since it must be hammered, I endorse the major anthropogenic cause of climate change and therefore I absolutely disagree with the document you produce.
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by Bardal » 30/10/18, 21:44

Ahmed wrote:@
Bardal

The problem is not so much the direction to follow (I had recently responded to Eclectron in this regard) that the clear perception of what prevents us from doing so or else, and this was the meaning of my message, of what deviates us from this purpose.



It's called a pirouette ...
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by sicetaitsimple » 30/10/18, 22:48

Ahmed wrote:The title I chose is intended deliberately ironic, as one can imagine ... (I specify it only for the bad-understanding!)

Good evening Ahmed, I am still alive even though I have not practiced "Florida Wave" on tomatoes this year!

So, to be concrete, you would suggest what in France, remain modest. But concrete, not verbiage.
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by phil53 » 31/10/18, 07:03

This article, which goes in the direction of Ahmed proposes as a solution to already break the individualism and to organize for this probable catastrophe in the short term
https://www.wedemain.fr/Collapsologie-E ... a3691.html

Collapsology: What if we organized for the end of the world?

Neither survivalists nor preachers, collapsologists intend to help us prepare for collapse. Because for them, the games are made. Our civilization will collapse. And only those who help each other will get away with it.


(...)
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by izentrop » 31/10/18, 09:34

It is neither the climate nor the planet that must be saved, but the conditions of life on earth.

Do not yakafokon either and continue wanting big houses with cozy warmth all winter. And then colapsology without the contribution of science, permaculture, I do not believe much.
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by Christophe » 31/10/18, 10:28

Reminder of a video posted by Ahmed here: climate-change-co2 / prepare-to-output-t15763-120.html



There is not ONE solution, there are hundreds ...

There may be even 7 billion solutions ...
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Ahmed
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Re: "Save" the planet or the climate: what does fashion tell us?




by Ahmed » 31/10/18, 13:38

It has always seemed important to me to favor a critical approach, especially in relation to analyzes that also have this pretension, but which do not go to the end of what they claim and which lead to dead ends. In fact, very few people are sufficiently aware of the intensity of the changes to be made in order to avoid the ultimate consequences of what has been started. As said, very aptly Izentrop:
It is neither the climate nor the planet that must be saved, but the conditions of life on earth.

Very few people are sufficiently aware of it and those who really decide have no interest in these changes, being themselves subject to these determinisms.
I think that Sen-no-sen explained at length the nature and functioning of these determinisms and the difficulty of abstracting from them. He also spoke clearly about many practical aspects of the choices to be made if we want to avoid the worst (which is not the collapse of a malignant system, but the fact that we are sinking with it, because of our alienation too much). deep to this last): I refer you to it.
In addition, I do not doubt that you are able to imagine what must be changed, as well as the obstacles that oppose it (no trace of irony in this sentence: the choices can only be collective).

The main practical modality for the moment lies in resistance to the destruction in progress, which is why it is necessary to conserve energy for non-rigged combats, such as the one expressed through "climate marches"; this is the meaning of this thread.
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