The work is finished! (Eco angle France2)

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Ahmed
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by Ahmed » 28/10/16, 21:03

I just saw the report ... Obviously very journalistic treatment: geographic displacements not always justified, polished staging, but absence of substantive debate and optimistic conclusion (work less and live better). Lots of issues evaded or treated superficially, but can we expect more from entertainment? : roll:
An example (at Michelin) of jobs will disappear, but others will arise in the fields of control and design ... This is conceptually absurd, since if an automaton cut ten direct jobs and required ten new ones assigned to monitoring and maintenance productivity would be lower than before this change.
Finally, the evolution of work in certain companies in the Netherlands, with a reduction in working time and a clear improvement in the framework and the conditions in which it is exercised, all things made possible by the extractivism prevalent in impoverished countries and the implacable conditions of the workers of these countries (who are forced to undergo competition from automation and are not about to see things improve for them).
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by eclectron » 29/10/16, 11:24

A point that is not raised:
If human labor disappears in favor of automation, it takes abundant and cheap energy to feed these automations.

Furthermore, the reduction in working time is not for philanthropic purposes, it is guided by financial profitability.
The reduction in working time is a consequence of the search for financial profitability, which implies competitiveness and therefore an increase in productivity.
Man becomes a burden for finance.
I am curious to see how this contradiction will be managed, a 100% automated economy that requires subsidies and 100% idle humans.
Finance will no longer be the master of the game.
In my opinion, paradigms will have to change in this area.

In the end if it leads to a 100% leisure company, why not, and we will have the leisure to take care of it intelligently ??? : Lol:

Finally, as long as energy is a blocked horizon (fossils), the sweet dream can turn into a catastrophe.
People no longer able to do anything with their 10 fingers and no energy to do for them.
Disaster scenario to avoid.
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by Ahmed » 29/10/16, 12:55

In the looming scenario, energy is not at all problematic, however what it is, are the consequences of its use. The more society tends towards this dystopia, the more the living environment will be turned upside down and the more the living conditions of living beings (including men) will be difficult, even if, by definition, the absolute reign of the machine is not conceivable. inside the current deterministic system * (a jump to another system remains however a hypothesis which cannot be excluded, although this mutation completely consistent, as shown Sen-no-sen, is currently difficult to conceive).
If we want to "occupy ourselves intelligently", it would be good to become aware of the determinisms at work and to become autonomous from them.

* In the restricted sense of the accumulation of abstract value.
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by sen-no-sen » 29/10/16, 14:08

eclectron wrote:A point that is not raised:
If human labor disappears in favor of automation, it takes abundant and cheap energy to feed these automations.

Furthermore, the reduction in working time is not for philanthropic purposes, it is guided by financial profitability.


At first glance, the reduction in working time, in particular through paid holidays, was part of a logic of socialism.
This aimed to guarantee social peace (= rewarded labor) while creating a very juicy market, namely tourism.
Countries with little regard for human rights, such as China, have quite naturally instituted this kind of measure, the only national tourism generating much more than the few days off.


I am curious to see how this contradiction will be managed, a 100% automated economy that requires subsidies and 100% idle humans.
Finance will no longer be the master of the game.
In my opinion, paradigms will have to change in this area.


Two fundamental ideologies are currently at work:economism et technologism, or both sides of the same coin ...
From a strictly economic point of view: in a context of slow growth in industrialized countries, the only loopholes with high profitability * are now:
1) The flight forward towards "the illusionist economy" (CDS, subprime, "ninja loan"), ie one ever more distant projection into the future of the present negative externalities.
2) an automation, or let's say most clearly a mass degreasing which consists in destroying the employment of the others to condense the profits on some large groups (phenomenon of monopolization once again!)

From a more technological point of view now, it appears that our species has been the vector of technical information (the tems) and that the resulting retro-actions are swinging more and more towards a new form of evolution.
This is what transhumanists call the singularity, let's say it clearly, this one announces the end of homo sapiens as we understand it for 150 years ...
From this point of view, automation is not accidental or dishonest, but necessary.
It only marks the advent of a new economic system (economy 2.0).

We are therefore moving more and more towards an ultra-liberal model where only people able to adapt very quickly to changes will have "the chance to get out" according to the expression devoted ...
We can obviously conclude that all of this will not lead to more social peace, and clash will result, with perhaps parallel (but legal) economies as an adjustment variable.



* There is another method:the war...
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by Christophe » 29/10/16, 14:41

eclectron wrote:A point that is not raised:
If human labor disappears in favor of automation, it takes abundant and cheap energy to feed these automations.


Providing human energy (for 99%) worries me more !! You do not work? You don't eat!
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by eclectron » 29/10/16, 15:11

Ahmed wrote:In the looming scenario, energy is not at all problematic ...

For the rest I agree but in the perspective of a scenario going towards 100% automation, you do not see fossil fuels as a blocked horizon?
what is your secret ?
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by eclectron » 29/10/16, 15:23

Christophe wrote:
eclectron wrote:A point that is not raised:
If human labor disappears in favor of automation, it takes abundant and cheap energy to feed these automations.


Providing human energy (for 99%) worries me more !! You do not work? You don't eat!

Me not understand everything! : Lol:
I think you agree with the contradiction, with the current paradigm of master money, of a profitable economy without humans and unprofitable humans on the floor, who are experienced as a burden for finance.
One of the two parties will have to give in ...
From my point of view, it can only be finance whose place must be rethought, it is still us humans who decide!
Is that so ?! : Lol:
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by Christophe » 29/10/16, 15:39

eclectron wrote:it's still us humans who decide!


No comment...
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by sen-no-sen » 29/10/16, 15:43

eclectron wrote:From my point of view, it can only be finance whose place must be rethought, it is still us humans who decide !
Is that so ?! : Lol:


Humans don't decide much, story behind it ...
To the extent that technical development has allowed our species to multiply beyond the environmental factors in force in nature, and that the technologies, the engine of its "advantages", are dissipated by the economy, we can understand the reasons for the hegemony of the financial world today.
But it is obviously a Faustian pact, since everything that has been given invariably ends up being taken up in one way or another ...
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Re: Work is over! (The eco angle, France2)




by eclectron » 29/10/16, 15:47

Christophe wrote:
eclectron wrote:it's still us humans who decide!


No comment...

uh yumour on my part ....

but it's still to set the record straight, to what should be and what is not.
it's good don't forget the essential even if it is currently a utopia and especially not to give up! : Wink:
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