Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Did67
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 05/03/21, 08:21

VetusLignum wrote:
It's to be tested, and it should depend on the strain.
I had left a head of garlic for 2-3 years in one spot, and when I finally harvested, there were several good sized heads deep down.


In any case, what I know is that some "organic" producers do like that, with the cultivation of bulbils, to "regenerate" their varieties (therefore rid them of diseases / parasites - because genetically, that does not change anything. ; we remain in cloning) ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Yool » 05/03/21, 09:12

Thanks for your advices.

I will therefore put in a homeopathic dose associated with my other cutlery and see how it breaks down over time. During this time the pile should compost and I would then see to use it more in the fall.
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by VetusLignum » 05/03/21, 14:18

Did67 wrote:
VetusLignum wrote:
It's to be tested, and it should depend on the strain.
I had left a head of garlic for 2-3 years in one spot, and when I finally harvested, there were several good sized heads deep down.


In any case, what I know is that some "organic" producers do like that, with the cultivation of bulbils, to "regenerate" their varieties (therefore rid them of diseases / parasites - because genetically, that does not change anything. ; we remain in cloning) ...



However, there may be mutations which, combined with human selections, may allow the development of local varieties.
Despite its asexual reproduction, garlic (Allium sativum L.) exhibits wide diversity for morphological and agronomic characters due to accumulation of mutations.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... 9/download
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 05/03/21, 17:20

Yes, of course, on another time scale [we are no longer situated on the passage from one season to another, nor with a particular market gardener], and among a very large number of identical multiplications, it sometimes there are mutations - some of which will generate an improvement. And will be at the origin of new varieties ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Moindreffor » 05/03/21, 20:19

Did67 wrote:Yes, of course, on another time scale [we are no longer situated on the passage from one season to another, nor with a particular market gardener], and among a very large number of identical multiplications, it sometimes there are mutations - some of which will generate an improvement. And will be at the origin of new varieties ...

or not : Mrgreen: , wait for natural mutations to create a new variety, you have to believe it : Mrgreen: I'm not saying it's impossible, but if you grow 1 ha of garlic how to recognize the garlic head that has mutated : Mrgreen: and in a positive way

do not believe that mutations are common, we are talking about it a lot at the moment because viruses are the champions of the mutation : Mrgreen: , in fact the more a living being has, among other things, a great speed of reproduction the more likely it is to mutate
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 05/03/21, 21:38

We are talking about the evolution over time of the evolution of species ...

To create varieties, you need genetic diversity. If all representatives of a certain species were strict clones, you wouldn't be able to "pick" some that would have traits that interest you more ... So you wouldn't be able to create an interesting cultivar within that strain.

This diversity is the result of the accumulation of mutations - quite exactly, of those that have persisted.

So in general, you are not going to create a variety in your field, like that by mutation.

But I misspoke, indeed: I skipped the step of accumulating new characters, making selection possible. Although there may be cases where a mutation changes a character - the color of a flower for example ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by VetusLignum » 06/03/21, 02:23

Did67 wrote:We are talking about the evolution over time of the evolution of species ...

To create varieties, you need genetic diversity. If all representatives of a certain species were strict clones, you wouldn't be able to "pick" some that would have traits that interest you more ... So you wouldn't be able to create an interesting cultivar within that strain.

This diversity is the result of the accumulation of mutations - quite exactly, of those that have persisted.

So in general, you are not going to create a variety in your field, like that by mutation.

But I misspoke, indeed: I skipped the step of accumulating new characters, making selection possible. Although there may be cases where a mutation changes a character - the color of a flower for example ...



It may be happening faster than you think.

An example of the appearance of a new variety: http://www.rasacreekfarm.com/organic-se ... n/majestic

Or : http://greyduckgarlic.com/garlic-breeding-program.html
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Moindreffor » 06/03/21, 14:24

VetusLignum wrote:It may be happening faster than you think.
An example of the appearance of a new variety: http://www.rasacreekfarm.com/organic-se ... n/majestic

excerpt from the text

Sometimes, a little miracle of nature occurs, the creation of a new plant variety by mutation. [...]
Harvest 1998; A single plant in a row of our Control Standard, Rocambole "Reliable", stands out, tall as a Porcelain but with the structure of leaves and stems of a Rocambole. The harvested bulb was huge, colossal in size and had 9 cloves like a Rocambole. In this region, porcelains generally produce 3 to 5 cloves per bulb. The cloves had a Porcelain appearance and coloration but little similarity to those of Rocambole "Reliable".
You start from reading this article, where it is indeed a question of the creation of a new variety by mutation and you tell us
VetusLignum wrote:It may be happening faster than you think.
while in the text they speak of a small miracle and of a single plant
your remark would suggest that it happens more often, which is false, and it is indeed what is said in this article, therefore a very personal interpretation of this reading, whereas the article precisely supports my remark that if it is necessary to wait for a mutation, it is necessary to believe in it and there yes they did not count on it but the miracle took place

so yes it is quite possible, I do not deny it, but no more than it remains exceptional not as you would like to believe it or make believe it, it is a little the exception which will confirm the rule : Mrgreen:
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Did67 » 06/03/21, 16:52

The probability of winning the jackpot at Euromillion is low ... That doesn't mean it never happens.

If you want to win for sure, you'll have to play billions and billions of times.

Or by chance, playing the maid ...

So if you want to create a strain by mutation, you can spend your life and the lives of your children there. Or you can have the chance to stumble upon it, like winning a jackpot.

Not to mention the fact that a mutation is far from always positive - it is usually "rubbish". Many rare diseases (or not for that matter), are the consequences of a mutation - the gene of I do not know which enzyme is damaged and you have celiac disease (true gluten intolerance) ...

Among these "anything", very rarely, is found something great or interesting ... Very rarely does not mean never.

And an interesting case on which an attentive gardener (among the millions of gardeners, breeders, etc.) comes across does not prove that this is not something very rare. There are cases of people who have only played the lotto once in their life - or been offered a ticket - and won the jackpot! They do not prove anything that you win every time - or even that you win easily!

Not all gardeners, among the millions, have had the chance to "come across" a new variety ...
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Re: The Kitchen Garden Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 06/03/21, 17:29

Did67 wrote:The probability of winning the jackpot at Euromillion is low ... That doesn't mean it never happens.

If you want to win for sure, you'll have to play billions and billions of times.

Or by chance, playing the maid ...

So if you want to create a strain by mutation, you can spend your life and the lives of your children there. Or you can have the chance to stumble upon it, like winning a jackpot.

Not to mention the fact that a mutation is far from always positive - it is usually "rubbish". Many rare diseases (or not for that matter), are the consequences of a mutation - the gene of I do not know which enzyme is damaged and you have celiac disease (true gluten intolerance) ...

Among these "anything", very rarely, is found something great or interesting ... Very rarely does not mean never.

And an interesting case on which an attentive gardener (among the millions of gardeners, breeders, etc.) comes across does not prove that this is not something very rare. There are cases of people who have only played the lotto once in their life - or been offered a ticket - and won the jackpot! They do not prove anything that you win every time - or even that you win easily!

Not all gardeners, among the millions, have had the chance to "come across" a new variety ...


Nice proba course Image
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