Photovoltaic panel isolated site not sunny

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BillyTheKid
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Photovoltaic panel isolated site not sunny




by BillyTheKid » 17/01/15, 22:09

Hello everybody

I need your expert help.

I am about to buy a house isolated from the ERDF network.
I therefore plan to install an autonomous solar kit for isolated sites.
Until then no problem but when I arrive at the calculation of my energy needs, I block.
I warn you immediately, me and my wife are very greedy in electricity. We do a lot of things with a wood stove and have given up some comfort and got used to the fifties.

So in our future homes we will have: 5 5W LED bulbs which will light up for 4 hours maximum and a fridge which is advertised with a consumption of 728 Wh / d. These are the only devices I want powered. So I plan to buy a kit for the lighting and a kit for the fridge.

My consumption for lighting is 100 Wh / d and my fridge consumes 728 Wh / d.
What power of panels should I count for the fridge precisely knowing that the house is located in Ardèche on a north slope of a hill. So the house and almost all the time shaded by the hill. How to know the sunshine rate and the duration of sunshine? This is where I block.
Thank you for helping me on this point so that I can continue my calculations.
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by Remundo » 18/01/15, 10:30

is it windy at your place? 8)

you consume 828 Wh every day.

it's a power of 35 W, it's very low.

A wind turbine, even a very small one, should make you happy ... and will also work at night (because light bulbs and fridges do not necessarily stop at night).

You should also provide a battery pack to absorb the irregularities of the wind, and the peak power of your fridge.
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BillyTheKid
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by BillyTheKid » 18/01/15, 11:03

Hello and thank you for responding.

I'm not against wind turbines.
The former owner had a study done by a German company so I think it's doable.

On the other hand, even if the land is clear, the house is located in the middle of a pine forest. It may spoil the hill a little.
In addition, I find it easier to install one or two solar panels on the ground rather than a wind turbine with foundations to support the mast.

My main objective and to see if photovoltaic panels can be a solution.
Then if I have to fall back on a wind turbine, it's not a problem.

Of course I expected to provide batteries. Especially for the night but also to have an autonomy of at least three days in case the panels do not produce enough current.

How can we do to know the sunshine rate of my future home.
It must be sunny in the summer because on Google maps you can see the shade of the trees!

Here are the GPS coordinates if you want to take a look: 45 ° 13'26.1 "N 4 ° 32'04.3" E
45.223909, 4.534522
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by Remundo » 18/01/15, 11:23

yes frankly, with all the trees and due north it seems incoherent to put PV.

But either ... you need roughly 300 kWh a year

ladle you could make 300 kWh / kWp year ... (but well exposed, it's rather 1300 kWh / kWp)

you would need 10 m² of PV.

in fact you are going to have to install a lot of PV compared to your real needs.

But if you already have a study, consult it, because we really don't have anything to be precise ...
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by BillyTheKid » 18/01/15, 13:53

Ah well like that it's clear at least!

I did well to ask your opinion, I did not think that my case was so hopeless.

I do not have the study of the winds but as soon as I have it, I study it and tell you what it is.
I know the wind turbines planned were vertical axis wooden wind turbines.

This kind of wind turbine is not very accessible in terms of price and availability.

Do you think a hybrid kit like this http://www.solutions-energies.fr/kit-hy ... -500w.html,
or another regardless of the brand, would be useful?

This would allow me to benefit from the wind turbine in winter and also a little PV. But conversely in summer where PV is the most likely to produce windless days in summer.

Suddenly it must be even more complex to calculate I imagine because it is necessary to take into account more parameter.
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by Remundo » 18/01/15, 14:12

yes, the seller says that you can produce 740 kWh / year according to favorable hypotheses ....

be careful, this kit seems to produce 12V continuous exclusively.

still ladle for this hybrid kit
1) the 400 Wp wind turbine will produce on average 1/4 of its peak power
(and perhaps less depending on the ventilation qualities of the site)
2) the solar panel of 100 Wp, 1/10
(and maybe less because of the shadows and the orientation)

that means that on average, you could have 40W wind and 10W solar ...

By becoming pessimistic, the 35W you need are more or less provided by this kit (I would say 30W wind and 5W solar in average annual power) ...

but again, we remain approximate.

You should install something like that, and nothing prevents you afterwards from adding a wind turbine or PV if you notice an insufficient production.

It should also be noted that a 1000/1500 W generator in AC 220V must cost less than € 300, compared to the often prohibitive price of these renewable energy kits, especially since the heat released by the group can be captured to heat a "cabin" with a few pipes / blowers.
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BillyTheKid
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by BillyTheKid » 18/01/15, 14:36

Thank you for these answers.
It's very nice of you to take the time to answer me.

For 12 volts, this is planned.
I want to pass my house in 12 volts.
That way, there is no risk of electric shock or fire (or almost).
No problem with any standards either because no risk.

The fridge will be in 12 v.

I already have a 2000W generator set which is intended to provide for my temporary needs with 230 V current (power tool ...).

I miss more than waiting for the study to have precise data.

Where do you get your approximations on the efficiency of the wind turbine and PV.

Are these calculations or a finding on real situations?

Then I can make a kit myself even if the price is not exorbitant by buying each piece independently.

And it's true that I can start small and add elements afterwards.
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by Remundo » 18/01/15, 15:08

this is called "the load factor"

an engine for example which runs H24 every day, it has a factor of 1: if it delivers 100 Ch. we can count on 100 Ch. all year round (except possible breakdown)

It is not the same for renewable energies.

Thus a panel of 1000 Wp, in factor of 1, would produce year-round 24h / day x 365.25 days = 8766 kWh, in practice, 1400 kWh / kWp is the top in France for panel installed immobile (a little better for solar trackers, even better in the Mediterranean).

For a poorly oriented panel, less than 1000 kWh / kWp, i.e. a factor close to 1/10 = 1 / 8,766

And for wind turbines, it is a factor of 4, drawn from field experience too.

After that there remain orders of magnitude ... depending on the sites, there may be variations.
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BillyTheKid
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by BillyTheKid » 18/01/15, 18:22

To go back to what I wanted, namely a kit for lighting and a kit for the fridge.
For economic reasons, wouldn't it be wiser to invest in a Freecold refrigerator ( http://www.batterie-solaire.com/congela ... c2x7627752 ), which I can power directly without batteries either with a wind turbine or PV.
To see in the long term with the more or less regular change of batteries.

Then if I follow your reasoning, a PV of 100 Wp would not even be enough to power my 100 W of bulbs.

Knowing that in winter, the sun is productive only 8 hours a day.
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by Remundo » 18/01/15, 19:08

I do not know this kind of product, but it seems overpriced ...

It is certain that 100 Wp of PV misdirected in winter is not enough to supply 100 W of lighting. Ultimately if you light up for a very short time Your batteries will tell you when to go to sleep in this case. :P
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