The superorganisms in question

General scientific debates. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energies or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub-sectors) forums).
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 24/07/14, 11:27

Ahmed wrote:
The natural evolution makes that each element of the living "tends to persevere in its being", as it says. Spinoza.


Yes and Spinoza had stated before the 3rd principle of thermodynamics applied to the system: the MEP (principle of maximum entropy production).
The latter is also extrapolable to our society, nations and companies and tends to explain why the different structures tend irreparably to increase their influence and to enter into conflict between them.
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 24/07/14, 11:34

if you reason like that man may not be the best inhabitant on earth so there is no harm in them all dying (men)

if humans had remained like the other animals, there would be much fewer, limited by the resources directly available

but for a long time humans have modified nature for their own profit, which makes it possible to feed a much larger number of humans

humans can judge the value of other animals in a very interested way: the bee that makes honey is better than the hornet that kills them

the wasp that makes little nest anywhere is bad for me ... I just got bitten by repairing a roof ... there was a nest under a tile ...

the sheep that makes wool is better than the wolf that eats them ... the voluntary reintroduction of wolves is for me stupid

the lion and the tiger will disappear in Africa as the wolf disappeared on our premises ... we will be able to console ourselves with those which will remain in the zoo
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 24/07/14, 11:49

chatelot16 wrote:if you reason like that man may not be the best inhabitant on earth so there is no harm in them all dying (men)


I reassure you immediately chatelot, at the train where things are going humanity will soon disappear ....

men can judge the value of other animals in a well-interested way: the bee that makes honey is better than the hornet that kills them


Who judges this?
The man or the "system"?
The human being a mimetic social animal, he naturally tends to imitate the reasoning arising from the logic of the super-organism.
It is a serious error to reason in terms of pure economic interest!
The different species that inhabit the earth play a role aimed at enabling the maintenance of living conditions on the planet, contemporary humanity is tending to destroy them irreparably.
It would be crazy to believe that we could continue like this, because in our world everything is connected, if the species disappear we will leave with it ... it's coming soon!
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 24/07/14, 12:03

Although I agree with Sen-no-sen, I deplore this outcome and I wish another, happier one.
Currently, the conditions are not met for such a change, even if there are, here and there, encouraging signs of distance from the market and the economic.

As for the wolf, it has not been reintroduced, it has just crossed the Italian border ...
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 24/07/14, 13:02

Ahmed wrote:As for the wolf, it has not been reintroduced, it has just crossed the Italian border ...


finally if we did not prohibit the shepherd from killing them, the problem would be quickly resolved!

there are some who criticize meat for human consumption, because it is more ecologically expensive than vegetable food: it must also be applied to wolves! it is better to have dogs fed on kibbles, than wolves who massacre sheep so as not even to eat them entirely ... and there is more biodiversity in dogs than in wolves
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 24/07/14, 13:46

chatelot16 wrote:there are some who criticize meat for human consumption, because it is more ecologically expensive than vegetable food: it must also be applied to wolves! it is better to have dogs fed on kibbles, than wolves who massacre sheep so as not even to eat them entirely ... and there is more biodiversity in dogs than in wolves


:?:
The first representatives of the familler canis appear around -900 years before our era ...Homo sapiens appeared around 150 years ago ...

As a reminder, sheep farming has a commercial purpose which is not essential to maintaining living conditions on earth.
Meat food can be relegated to the background in lowland areas.
Kibbles for dogs / cats are produced from residues of ... meat ... from breeding.
The breeds of dogs obtained by artificial selection are not very viable in time, many dogs would not live very long in the wild nature.
The cohabitation between human and animal becomes more and more complex, rather than to settle the problems with gunshots, it might be time to think about a method of joint development, I for my part call that the "efficient sobriety".

The era of the Anthropocene, whose advent did not advance much to 1748 according to Paul Crutzen or in 1776 for the outburst of matter de Philippe Grasset marks the beginning of what can be called the STM (totalitarian merchant system) or STS (techno-scientist super-organism).
This era coincides perfectly with the considerable increase in GHG emissions as well as the global destruction of ecosystems.
It would be foolish to believe as some hucksters affirm that his extinctions should be put into perspective.
because one thing is certain, the human being will not be the last to disappear, if necessary, our biology is far too fragile to allow us to resist the changes that we operate ... hence the idea of ​​certain of want to modify it ...
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 24/07/14, 20:02

Sheep farmers face serious problems of economic viability and the issue of the wolf is only added to by providing a timely point of crystallization.

They cannot do much against an anonymous "market", while the wolf is an ideal outlet for their discomfort *.

Their Italian colleagues are comfortable with cohabitation with this predator, because their pastoral system is very different from that practiced in France.

* It is a very common method to find an easily identifiable manager who avoids the headache of a real analysis (no, I did not speak of a scapegoat !. 8) ).
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 24/07/14, 20:16

Ahmed wrote:
* It is a very common method to find an easily identifiable manager who avoids the headache of a real analysis (no, I did not speak of a scapegoat !. 8) ).


Scapegoat for a wolf, a shame! : Lol:

Indeed it is easy to find "responsible" for the phases of collapse that civilizations go through: the bosses of the ACC for the NPA, the immigrants for the national front, the Jews for the anti-Semites, the Illuminati for the conspirators, etc. .etc ...

"The" real responsible is rather to be sought in this subject ...
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491




by Janic » 25/07/14, 08:02

chatelot hello
there are some who criticize meat for human consumption, because it is more ecologically expensive than vegetable food:It is not only a question of cost, but also and above all because it is a violation of the laws of biology.
Criticize our society because, precisely, it has moved away from the great laws of nature, while self-justifying these transgressions when it comes to nutrition biologically adapted to each form of life: this is what is contradictory .
Everyone was shocked by the animal meal given to herbivores because it was just inappropriate. The consumption of animals for our physiology is also absurd, but it is part of these human interventions sometimes justified by certain extreme conditions, but more in our societies largely provided with local vegetable food varieties.

it must also be applied to wolves! it is better to have dogs fed on kibbles, than wolves who massacre sheep so as not even to eat them entirely ... and there is more biodiversity in dogs than in wolves
For the wolf, man has killed his natural predators like the bear which entered into territorial competition with them. Another unfortunate intervention, but also justified by territorial competition.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Science and Technology"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : A.D. 44, Remundo and 154 guests