Textile silo Okofen new torn after 2th filling

[Did67]

No.

63 ° is normal. I don't know what she was doing at 70!

What to avoid is that the boiler drops below 60 ° because then, the fumes condense inside, on the exchangers. These are steel boilers. Any condensation would result in an acid condensate, therefore of corrosion which will finish, in 6 or 8 or 10 years, by having the skin of your boiler.

On the other hand, the "yoyos" of temperature between 63 and 78 ° are largely buffered by water, this is not done in a few seconds ...

Imagine what the engine of your car endures when you start it cold and whose combustion is in the more than 1 ° a few seconds later! Nobody asks the question of "thermal shock"!

It is therefore necessary to "open" as much as possible the range over which your boiler can oscillate, so that the power modulation can play fully. There are then chances that it oscillates around its nominal temperature (70 ° normally). If it exceeds, it "knows" that it is producing too much heat and modulates downwards, in the hope that the heat consumption by the heater will exceed the production by the boiler. So, it converges to 70 °.

If this is the case, once the pellets ingested have been consumed, the fire will decrease and we will tend towards equilibrium.

But if it is "overpowered", this cannot be done!

I had forgotten that the "Touch" did not give the level of modulation, but in the hope of being more "user-friendly", directly the power.

It seems to me that the mini is 30%?

So the fact that before the shutdown this 30% (if that's it) was reached confirms that the modulation has had time to act, but that this is not enough. It is then not cold enough to "consume" the calories produced and we reach the maximum ... So stop!

[lorrain57200]

all the info is good so as not to make too many mistakes ....

please

[max 01]

happy to meet you Did67
Here are my latest statements that may allow you to do an analysis:

Since the change from the minimum set temperature to 63 °, the average burner operating time is 48 minutes.
(only 20 days with an outside temperature of 4 ° to 10 °)

The boiler power (modulation on the Touch as you indicated to me) is at 42% just before the indication "end of combustion"

The combustion fan runs for another 10 minutes after the "end of combustion"

The "stop" indication is made 7 minutes after the combustion fan has stopped.

I am quite satisfied with this 48-minute burner operating time. Can I hope better?
On the other hand, stopping the boiler at 42% power lets me assume that the boiler is overpowered. since it does not modulate up to 30% .. Am I right?

if so how to remedy it since it cannot be lowered below its current setting of 22 kw?

Last I ask myself a question about the performance of the boiler because there is a significant ash weight = 10 times the normal weight
These ashes are heterogeneous (fine and grainy) with a Din + standard pellet
For example 4200grams of ash for 1900kw in the heating circuit which gives 2.25g of ash / KW while this weight should be of the order of 0.20g of ash / KW by crossing the information that I could have.

So that the weight of the ashes decreases and so that they are homogenously fine I suppose that this goes through better combustion.

According to you which parameters are to control?

[Did67]

1) A stop at 42% suggests that the temperature of the boiler "rises" faster than the boiler has time to modulate downwards and that it therefore goes into the wall!

You should know that to properly burn the "ingested" pellets, the modulation only decreases step by step ...

If the boiler is too powerful, it "traps" itself.

The fairly mild external temperatures obviously play a role: the need for heating is limited, so the system "pumps" relatively few calories produced by the boiler.

It's not great, but not a disaster in this season (well, by this weather!).

2) Poor combustion: the first thing to wonder about, before the boiler, which even when it is not optimal will always ensure an "almost perfect" combustion! Is the quality of the pellets ...

a) I no longer know what system you have, but the easiest way is to try another brand / quality for a few days and observe.

b) the humidity can be checked simply with a microwave and a sufficiently precise balance

c) it is related to the temperature of the hearth: locate the temp of the hearth at the start of the cycle (after start-up), in the middle of the cycle (once it begins to modulate downward) and towards the end of the cycle ...

In the middle of the cycle, you must exceed 720 ° ... If you are clearly below, this is generally a sign of pellets that are too wet or of poor quality ...

[max 01]

I have just finished my daily visit to the boiler having noted the points you requested.

1 My feeding system is done by the silo torn up with an aspiration (I have not yet confirmed the change by Okofen, but that is another problem) so I see it difficult to experiment with several kinds of granules.

2 Regarding the humidity level: the silo is in a concrete and habitable basement (I emptied a storage room next to the boiler room to install the silo), so I don't think it is too wet but I will check this if you can tell me how to do it with a microwave ........ I have not found ...

3 I also did not find the T ° of the hearth so I fell back on the T ° of the flame.

I took these measurements on 2 combustions and in fact averages them to avoid overwatering you with figures.

The T ° of the flame after start-up, when "ignition" is indicated, is 135.

After that it gets complicated:

I had difficulty interpreting

c) it is related to the temperature of the hearth: locate the temp of the hearth at the start of the cycle (after start-up), in the middle of the cycle (once it begins to modulate downward) and towards the end of the cycle ...

"in the middle of the cycle when it begins to modulate downwards"
The boiler is 100% for 8 minutes (the cycle lasts 39 minutes)
then it goes to 94% with a boiler temperature of 62 °
and a flame temperature of 480 ° (setpoint for the flame 640 °)

After 26 minutes from the start of the "ignition" phase, the maximum flame setpoint is 745 ° and the measured flame T ° is 630 ° at this time.

At the end of the cycle after 39 minutes just before the "end of combustion" indication, the setpoint T ° requested for the flame is 695 ° and the measured T ° is 685 °.

You tell me that in the middle of the cycle the T ° must exceed 720 °; even if I don't know where the middle of the cycle is I note that the T ° never exceeds 685 ° and more at the end of the cycle.

Are these deviations serious according to you?

Before incriminating the pellets, I will check their humidity because unfortunately I have very big doubts about the quality of the commissioning of the boiler when I see that the minimum T ° of the boiler was programmed to 70 °.

So I think there are other parameters that will have to be moved on this boiler.

Do you have any idea?

[Did67]

I have just finished my daily visit to the boiler having noted the points you requested.

1 My feeding system is done by the silo torn up with an aspiration (I have not yet confirmed the change by Okofen, but that is another problem) so I see it difficult to experiment with several kinds of granules.

Take points 1 to 1 ...

If you have the aspiration, you can very easily remove the cover on the hopper (the small tank attached to the boiler), unscrew it, lift the cover and fill for a few days with bags of quality pellets to compare ...

[Did67]

2 Regarding the humidity level: the silo is in a concrete and habitable basement (I emptied a storage room next to the boiler room to install the silo), so I don't think it is too wet but I will check this if you can tell me how to do it with a microwave ........ I have not found ...

It’s quite simple. You need a scale that measures to the nearest g.

You take an open, wide dish, which fits in the microwave. You take his tare. You fill it with a fairly thin layer of pellets. You weight. By difference, you will have the initial P1 podis of pellets.

You go to the microwave for 1 minute. You weight. The weight will have decreased by evaporation of the water ...

You go back to the microwave for 1 minute. You weight. The weight should decrease a little more ...

You continue so on until the weight no longer moves.

Warning, you stop as soon as the first "brownish" dots appear. And you stop otherwise you set fire to the hut!

You will have, always by difference with the tare, the weight P2 of very dry pellets.

The humidity level is (P2-P1) / P1. If it is higher than 10%, you are no longer in the norms.

This usually comes from storage or manufacturing, so before delivery.

[Did67]

2 Regarding the humidity level: the silo is in a concrete and habitable basement (I emptied a storage room next to the boiler room to install the silo), so I don't think it is too wet but I will check this if you can tell me how to do it with a microwave ........ I have not found ...

It’s quite simple. You need a scale that measures to the nearest g.

You take an open, wide dish, which fits in the microwave. You take his tare. You fill it with a fairly thin layer - about 1 cm - of pellets, so that the water vapor is easily released. You weight. By difference, you will have the initial weight P1 of pellets.

You go to the microwave for 1 minute. You weight. The weight will have decreased by evaporation of water ... You ventilate, a fan with a cardboard (without making the pellets fly)

You go back to the microwave for 1 minute. You weight. The weight should decrease a little more ...

You continue so on until the weight no longer moves two times in a row..

Warning, you stop as soon as the first "brownish" dots appear. And you stop otherwise you set fire to the hut!

You will have, always by difference with the tare of the dish, the weight P2 of very dry pellets.

The humidity level is (P1-P2) / P1. If it is higher than 10%, you are no longer in the norms.

This usually comes from storage or manufacturing, so before delivery.

[Did67]

3 I also did not find the T ° of the hearth so I fell back on the T ° of the flame.

I took these measurements on 2 combustions and in fact averages them to avoid overwatering you with figures.

The T ° of the flame after start-up, when "ignition" is indicated, is 135.

After that it gets complicated:

I had difficulty interpreting

c) it is related to the temperature of the hearth: locate the temp of the hearth at the start of the cycle (after start-up), in the middle of the cycle (once it begins to modulate downward) and towards the end of the cycle ...

"in the middle of the cycle when it begins to modulate downwards"
The boiler is 100% for 8 minutes (the cycle lasts 39 minutes)
then it goes to 94% with a boiler temperature of 62 °
and a flame temperature of 480 ° (setpoint for the flame 640 °)

After 26 minutes from the start of the "ignition" phase, the maximum flame setpoint is 745 ° and the measured flame T ° is 630 ° at this time.

At the end of the cycle after 39 minutes just before the "end of combustion" indication, the setpoint T ° requested for the flame is 695 ° and the measured T ° is 685 °.

You tell me that in the middle of the cycle the T ° must exceed 720 °; even if I don't know where the middle of the cycle is I note that the T ° never exceeds 685 ° and more at the end of the cycle.

Are these deviations serious according to you?

Before incriminating the pellets, I will check their humidity because unfortunately I have very big doubts about the quality of the commissioning of the boiler when I see that the minimum T ° of the boiler was programmed to 70 °.

So I think there are other parameters that will have to be moved on this boiler.

Do you have any idea?

1) I don't have the "touch" and therefore I don't always have the "new" names. It is this temperature of the flame (or the hearth) that it is about!

2) Yes, they seem low to me, without being dramatic.

At home, with pure reisneux, it's much higher, as I told you. I regularly reach 740/745 ...

3) So yes, there is suspicion too wet pellets. The excess water they contain cools the flame, which reaches a lower temperature.

This has two consequences:

- poorer combustion (the higher the combustion temperature, the better "all the molecules" are burned)

- the yield is a little less good: it is necessary to "evaporate" this water, which consumes part of the calories; moreover, as seen, the combustion is a little less good ...

4) However, there is nothing to do! I do not recommend, without a measuring device, to play on some "parameters" which regulate combustion. You need a good professional for that. We can then adjust the supply of pellets a little (bring a little more). But we must check that we do not go into incomplete combustion, at the risk of exploding the level of CO!

It’s like putting a little worse diesel in your car; it would have a lower performance ... Even if it is a Porsche or a Ferrari! And you can pay as you want!

Make sure this doesn't happen again!

And do, if you want to be clear, the two tests:

- burn a few bags from another "certified" product for a few days and observe the temperature

- measure humidity ...

[Did67]

(I have not yet confirmed the change by Okofen, but that is another problem)

Who did you contact: your installer? regional representation? national after-sales service?


Normally, a problem "escalates" in this order.

But if nothing moves, you hit the floor above! Too bad for the floor below, he will be slapped on the fingers and risks grumbling ...

But don't hesitate.

I do not live what we could repor you, except blows of rage knives! So that does not seem to me questionable: guaranteed!

[but as soon as there is nothing to gain, it often lags a bit; so tap it over and say it looks ugly on the forum econology!]