Arte Xenius: thermal insulation, hazards and risks

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 10/12/12, 14:08

If straw costs a straw (like a farmer), you can make a fuss! : Cheesy: if it costs an arm ... leave it!

Good, good ... Always such good advice Bidouille.

As you say, must see everything, implementing itou;)

And Bam !

So ok, I'm going to take a step back ... the cellulose wadding panels, it will be for the places where we can't breathe ... So not in a lot of places I presume .... hum!

Finally, that said, I prefer the boxes, because at least you can plan to ask the outside window frames if you decide to put 2V + argon (that's for the personal choice ...) And like that you even no need to remove the old ones, it makes you triple glazing and there's less labor and nothing goes by ...

I don't know if you saw that:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post244965.html#244965

No success this thread, when in fact ...! I find it great the windows without jamb! Getting to passivate a "conventional" house is all that was missing amha. and even better, since it produces more energy than it consumes in the end (and even in a cashed valley: proof that it is possible almost everywhere !!!)
Even more need to drill at medium depth to keep the heat (well Dede was not wrong, but at the same time it goes beyond expectations). And it obviously costs less, until we find the miracle solution to do without a boiler: we can already do it ...

You can give your opinion ...! I even invite you to come to Valais next time to visit ...;) They have a good little white that pinches (do not clean the windows with, it would scratch them : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: like that you drink moderately ... ahahahah)
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10973




by Christophe » 11/12/12, 07:43

bidouille23 wrote:Hello ,

I fully agree with Obamot, I would even add:

The polyurethane panels do not burn but in addition have the best lambda insulation coefficient, counted 0.032 to 0.035 against 0.04 for cellulose, therefore at a lower thickness equivalent result.


We even go down to 0.023 with the PIR ... and I can do a flammability test: I have "a few" drops at the moment. But not PU but PIR (improved PU despite its name :D ) https://www.econologie.com/forums/chantier-d ... 12139.html
0 x
User avatar
Forhorse
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2485
Registration: 27/10/09, 08:19
Location: Perche Ornais
x 359




by Forhorse » 11/12/12, 08:05

PIR? what's this ?
I'm interested because I would have an ITE to do on the north side of my house and I'm just starting to learn about the various techniques / materials.
0 x
bidouille23
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1155
Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
Location: Britain BZH powaaa
x 2




by bidouille23 » 11/12/12, 14:06

Hello ,

I will watch your link carefully Obamot thank you.

As much for me, concerning the PU foam, their lambda goes from 0.022 to 0.03 then comes the glass wool with 0.032 until 0.038 and finally wadding etc from 0.038 to 0.04 after the materials are no longer considered as insulating ...
So PU or PIR only the price will really make the difference for the same lambda of course.


a small example for those who do not understand the why of the how:

R (thermal resistance of the materials) = e (thickness of the dis materials) / the lamda of the materials.

ex: for the Lambda wadding = 0.04 and PRI Lambda = 0.023 say that we take 100 mm panels;):
R = 0.1 / 0.04 = 2.5 M²K / w

and R = 0.1 / 0.023 = 4.36 m²K / W.

so for the same thickness in one case the insulation is just twice as high thanks to the low thermal conductivity.


Now with regard to the walls I would tend to choose wadding or straw or any other material with mass in order to have an acceptable phase shift of 10 hours, something that with the panels of Pu PIR or mineral wool it is impossible to have.

So for my part: for a cellar, and the places where we can not lose too much space, the foam is great.

Otherwise when there is room, a good injection or straw will be much better and not much more expensive but so much more efficient, especially if as said Obamot have used the existing one to the best;).

see you later
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10973




by Christophe » 11/12/12, 18:14

Forhorse wrote:PIR? what's this ?
I'm interested because I would have an ITE to do on the north side of my house and I'm just starting to learn about the various techniques / materials.


PIR = polyisocyanurate

It is "improved" PU (0.023 instead of 0.026 - 0.032)
Ben looks at the link of my work in progress it is explained above: https://www.econologie.com/forums/chantier-d ... 12139.html

I use for an ITI a material made for ITE precisely!
0 x
bidouille23
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 1155
Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
Location: Britain BZH powaaa
x 2




by bidouille23 » 11/12/12, 18:41

in ordinary PU for example:


http://www.sibli.be/fr/polyurethane_f.htm#ici look at the pdf below on the SIS reve coef 0.023

like a nice link:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... G22zCc.pdf


http://lotus.soprema.fr/www/reftechsop.nsf/($AllByUNID)/CAFC7C618EFDCE61C125791300520A69/$File/EFIGREEN%20ITE.pdf

and there are others up to 0.022;)

balance sheet PU or PIR is kiffe kiffe bourricot;), only the price can be differentiated according to the suppliers ...

there are lots of types of PU foam in fact it is the problem to choose the right materials in all this and then be able to have it in the desired time hummmm ...
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10973




by Christophe » 11/12/12, 19:28



Good Ademe file with in particular all the information that is difficult to find (gray energy at 1.8 kWh / m² in 80 mm)! It will help me to take stock of my work there!
0 x
BobFuck
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 534
Registration: 04/10/12, 16:12
x 2




by BobFuck » 11/12/12, 19:58

The PIR / PUR is completely waterproof, therefore in insulation from the outside, beware of condensation behind ... On the other hand, inside, it is also a vapor barrier.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 399 guests