Arte Xenius: thermal insulation, hazards and risks

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Christophe
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by Christophe » 09/12/12, 20:03

Well this is what seems to me too ...

The worst insulation scam in terms of "durability" is mineral wool ... because unless the formwork is perfectly waterproof ... they hardly have a lifespan of 5 to 10 years. ..
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by Ahmed » 09/12/12, 20:07

On the depreciation (and not the profitability which does not mean much here) of an external insulation, this figure of 30 years has no great significance since we ignore the cost of energy in the years to come .
Is this not just a projection from the figures known at the time of the calculation?
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by Christophe » 09/12/12, 20:21

Worse than a projection: the German expert says, with conviction, that the bill will be divided by 2 and this in all the examples ... so good ... yes a little ladle!

By the way, do you know the method of calculating the overall insulation coefficient K? In Belgium it is not badly used but in France I do not believe ... I will make a subject to present the method soon ...
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by Obamot » 10/12/12, 09:20

Christophe wrote:
BobFuck wrote:- How long does it take to make the insulation profitable?
- 30 years...
- and how long does it last?
- uh, 30 years ...


ditto ... but this was said several minutes apart ...

Except that would you explain to me how a polystyrene panel can age? Unless eaten by rodents or birds but that would mean that it was fucked up ... by incompetent artisans ... or who voluntarily perpetuate their business ...

- they disintegrate or become colonized by decay with a high rate of hygrometry.
- as the panels are rigid, when the building moves it can create air channels and the insulation can lose its effect if the air circulates between it and the wall.
- and obviously it can burn very easily (although on the front ...) and rodents can also attack it.
So it is to be "watched".

To see for the price, but the polyurethane foam panels do not burn them, they are consumed but with difficulty (do a test with a lighter, you will see that it does not catch fire ...) on the other hand the spray foam is very, very dear amha. It's just fine for cavities where you can't go with insulation.

Otherwise the best is cellulose wadding, as already said in a lot of places on the forum, whether on the front in boxes or inside!

On the other hand I do not know if panels of cellulose wadding exist? that would avoid mounting boxes!

Apparently yes. it exists and it would be flexible:
Image

http://materiaux-ecologiques.kenzai.fr/ ... 5kgm3.html

PS: don't be fooled by the "sound insulator" argument, as the dB data is in unweighted deciBells which doesn't mean anything. Since the audibility threshold is 40 dB (while in weighted dB it is audible from the first decibel and it doubles every 3 decibels)
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by aerialcastor » 10/12/12, 09:20

Christophe wrote:By the way, do you know the method of calculating the overall insulation coefficient K? In Belgium it is not badly used but in France I do not believe ... I will make a subject to present the method soon ...



In France this coef has been called Ubat for a few years. It is still used in regulatory thermal studies.

http://www.climat-ic.com/infos/RT%202005-10.pdf
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by Christophe » 10/12/12, 10:01

Yes for Ubat of course for audits but not at all (or very little?) Known to the general public? Am mistaken?

In Belgium we find the K in some house builder's pubs.

The calculation method is not the same because the global Belgian K does not take into account the climatic zone (normal there is only one in Belgium lol)
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 10/12/12, 10:29

Ubat does not take into account the climatic zone. It is the Ubatref which takes into account the climatic zone.

In principle in calculation the Ubat of the building according to the characteristics of the walls. And this Ubat must be lower than the Ubatref.

I doubt the general public will know what it is. For the general public we talk more about the BBC, Minergie or Passivhaus labels.

I do not know the Belgian regulations but I think that the coef K or Ubat represents the same thing.
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by Christophe » 10/12/12, 10:44

If it can give a similar result (it would be nice to compare the 2 like) I do not think that it is exactly the same thing because the K takes into account the compactness of the building and any thermal bridges.

Compactness = heated volume / surface area

In fact we use Ubat (Umoy in Belgian) as an intermediate calculation of K ...

Well I think it is urgent that I do this "subject K"
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by Christophe » 10/12/12, 11:08

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by bidouille23 » 10/12/12, 13:49

Hello ,

I fully agree with Obamot, I would even add:

The polyurethane panels do not burn but in addition have the best lambda insulation coefficient, counted 0.032 to 0.035 against 0.04 for cellulose, therefore at a lower thickness equivalent result.

As for other possibilities, as much putting panels of dense rock wool do not suit me inside as much as it seems much better to me.
Disadvantage: the dust (seeing that it's outside don't care)
the manufacturing method (there is nothing to be lazy about it is the wallet that generally chooses ... :(


Advantage: good lambda
and especially does not move in the event of fire (not like glass wool)


otherwise for wadding panels :) apart from the price that must be multiplied by 3 in comparison with the injection nothing to complain about;), if it is only in the end even with panels you will have to put a framework which will be app as long has posed that a box system (has something ready) ...


Otherwise it straw (you like that eh Obamot;)), mega insulator, does not move in the fire or water (as long as it does not soak in it), only rodents are to be feared, but when have seen the price : Shock: there is a way to take the time to think about it ...

"Exterior hemp and lime as thermal correction and air control, but not insulation."

I have a neighbor who put ldv panels covered with a triply sheet, then uncoupling veil then classic bi-layer coating. This has been going on for 15 years without worries, even after dismantling a piece to put a window the observation was clear, no problem.

so ITE means there are in fact plenty ...
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