Brain Functioning: NBIC, Consciousness and Cognitive, Studies, Research, Facts and Mysteries

General scientific debates. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energies or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub-sectors) forums).
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Re: Brain, NBIC, Consciousness and Cognition: Facts and Mysteries




by sen-no-sen » 04/09/19, 11:25


Does free will exist?
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Re:




by GuyGadebois » 04/09/19, 12:24

sen-no-sen wrote:Another thing weird is that action can precede consciousness.
Experiments have shown that the brain prepares the action several milliseconds before the subject is conscious of wanting it!

When you run downhill in the mountains and your gaze is in front of you, your brain has already calculated thousands (millions?) Of parameters even before your feet have reached the ground and your body has traveled the distance considered without that you never know.
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Re: Brain, NBIC, Consciousness and Cognition: Facts and Mysteries




by GuyGadebois » 04/09/19, 12:33

Obamot wrote:Where is it marked that it is with an 3D printer?

I think it's the video that's rigged.

The explanation of the trick is in the second video of the previous page! In any case it's bluffing ... : Shock:
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Re:




by GuyGadebois » 04/09/19, 13:13

sen-no-sen wrote:Another thing weird is that action can precede consciousness.
Experiments have shown that the brain prepares the action several milliseconds before the subject is conscious of wanting it!

Here they talk about 11 seconds!
https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sante/c ... che_132097
And in 2012, it was between 7 and 10 seconds:
https://sciencetonnante.wordpress.com/2 ... iste-t-il/
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Re: Re:




by sen-no-sen » 04/09/19, 13:45

GuyGadebois wrote:When you run downhill in the mountains and your gaze is in front of you, your brain has already calculated thousands (millions?) Of parameters even before your feet have reached the ground and your body has traveled the distance considered without that you never know.


Yes, but it's all about reflexes. It's the same thing when you put your hand on a burning surface, the body has automatisms that do not require decisions, otherwise the simplest things would be very long to realize and would endanger our physical integrity (imagined that it is necessary to think to run during the attack of a predator for example!).

On the other hand, it becomes more disturbing when one approaches the question of the decision-making power. But in fact it has been several millennia since this question has been answered, particularly in the Hindo-Buddhist philosophy.
The "me" (the little way in the head, the personality in short) is only an a posteriori narrative production. But we identify with this mental construction by the designation "I" (I am, I have pain. , I like, I don't like etc ...), which is in reality only the convergence of neural processes induced by a multitude of internal stimuli (memory, learning etc ...) as external (environment). The ego in a way attributes the action to itself and gives the impression that it is he who is at the origin of our actions when these are induced by multiple parameters.

Now, this kind of research should not be misinterpreted, that does not mean that we are not responsible for our actions, on the contrary, but that our control over the events is in fact very superficial.
Moreover, as already explained, determinism is not synonymous with fate or destiny, since the correlation of all factors in the world generates stochastic effects that are impossible to predict.
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Re: Re:




by GuyGadebois » 04/09/19, 13:51

sen-no-sen wrote:
GuyGadebois wrote:When you run downhill in the mountains and your gaze is in front of you, your brain has already calculated thousands (millions?) Of parameters even before your feet have reached the ground and your body has traveled the distance considered without that you never know.


Yes, but this is reflexes.

Not only, since at the same time because you "make the choice" to go to the right or to the left, to brake, to accelerate, to jump according to your perception of the ground. There is a lot of upstream work involved. It's the same in skiing (which I practiced from two and a half years old) where everything is mixed up and where life is at stake depending on the route we take.
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Re: Re:




by sen-no-sen » 04/09/19, 14:07

GuyGadebois wrote:Not only, since at the same time because you "make the choice" to go to the right or to the left, to brake, to accelerate, to jump according to your perception of the ground. There is a lot of upstream work involved.


Of course most activities are not strictly reflexive, but require the operation of many parts of our brain.
Cycling requires both maintaining a balance (automatism) but also choosing a path and respecting at least rules of conduct (intellect).
But here again we are in the determinism and the free will does not really take into consideration, the speed for example is linked to the physical condition and thus upstream to a physical training, conditioned in turn by a frame of reference (the being sporty is induced by a multitude of factors upstream: family, genetic, cultural or economic etc ...).
The choice of a route is conditioned to turn by imperatives of time or fatigues or infrastructures etc ...
The code of the road is itself the culmination of determinisms of all kinds to minimize losses while maximizing circulants! : Lol:
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Re: Re:




by GuyGadebois » 04/09/19, 14:12

sen-no-sen wrote:
GuyGadebois wrote:Not only, since at the same time because you "make the choice" to go to the right or to the left, to brake, to accelerate, to jump according to your perception of the ground. There is a lot of upstream work involved.


Of course most activities are not strictly reflexive, but require the operation of many parts of our brain.
Cycling requires both maintaining a balance (automatism) but also choosing a path and respecting at least rules of conduct (intellect).
But here again we are in the determinism and the free will does not really take into consideration, the speed for example is linked to the physical condition and thus upstream to a physical training, conditioned in turn by a frame of reference (the being sporty is induced by a multitude of factors upstream: family, genetic, cultural or economic etc ...).
The choice of a route is conditioned to turn by imperatives of time or fatigues or infrastructures etc ...
The code of the road is itself the culmination of determinisms of all kinds to minimize losses while maximizing circulants! : Lol:

We can also, when practicing in a group, add several elements such as wanting to make the most beautiful gesture possible, show off in front of others, "add more", etc., etc., and there, I think that free will can have its ( small) place. In fact, we can realize in "extreme" situations, how a multitude of factors come into play and marvel at the capacity of our brain (and our bodily instrument, when it "follows") to process them. in real time and almost immediately! Good luck to computers in getting to those pegs.
Last edited by GuyGadebois the 04 / 09 / 19, 14: 16, 1 edited once.
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"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
"360 / 000 / 0,5 is 100 million and not 72 million" (AVC)
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Re: Re:




by Christophe » 04/09/19, 14:13

GuyGadebois wrote:Here they talk about 11 seconds!
https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sante/c ... che_132097
And in 2012, it was between 7 and 10 seconds:
https://sciencetonnante.wordpress.com/2 ... iste-t-il/


Uh I often thought about my actions much longer than a few seconds later !! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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