How biogas 1 m3 waste, at least, no

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 30/10/11, 20:00

Dédéléco, you're sometimes sadly pitiful !!!

I worked as an agronomist a dozen years in Sahelian Africa, thank you for doing my education with high dose Wikipedia!

You will never have the humility to be silent when you know nothing about it! No way to cure your neurosis otherwise? No, you have to stuff your wikipedia quotes on everything (which by the way, everything is far from being exact!).

In addition, in my current job, we are doing tests with sorghum in Alsace as a stolen crop (stolen, it's not stolen: before taking a steal of Wikipedia, I specify that a stolen crop is a crop that we "slip" between two main crops - sometimes just as green manure, sometimes for fodder, sometimes like there, as an energy crop without competing with a nutrient crop) to feed a digester. And the problem is at the end of September, temperatures that drop below + 8 °, the plant "turns white" and stops growing. This is what I called "physiological gel".

When the poet shows the moon, dedéléco comes out on Wikipedia!

After, miraculous plants, there are plenty of websites!
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 30/10/11, 20:13

Hi, in your tests, what date did you bury it?
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.
Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
x 10




by dedeleco » 30/10/11, 20:16

A plant which rests, withers or gives up in bad conditions for it, is not a plant which freezes, because then the trees and plants which lose their leaves in the fall also freeze "physiologically" !!

On the other hand, annoyed, no need to use insults, it's bad for your health !!!
Last edited by dedeleco the 30 / 10 / 11, 20: 53, 2 edited once.
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 30/10/11, 20:20

zero vegetation would be more appropriate, but playing with words will get you nowhere.
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.

Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
clasou
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 553
Registration: 05/05/08, 11:33




by clasou » 30/10/11, 21:20

Hi,
For did67, which species are you working on, are they original species, or modern varieties (GMOs) or whatever, I don't know what exactly is done in the field of experiments.
a + claude
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 30/10/11, 21:37

Just to be clear:

- it is not vegetative zero (which has another definition): growth stops but resumes afterwards (it is 9 ° for corn, which nevertheless withstands temperatures close to 0 °)

- it is obviously not the fall of the leaves (which is a seasonal stop triggered among other things by the cold), nor a rest, even less a wilting (which is the effect of a lack of water)

- it is indeed a gel, but at temperatures well above 0 ° (which we generally assimilate to freezing or freezing - effect of freezing = effect of temperatures below 0 °) the mechanisms of the cell are permanently altered, the sorghum does not "recover" ...

This is one of the obstacles encountered (not every year!) With sorghum as a catch crop after a grain harvest in July ...

Otherwise, sorghum is already commonly used in spring / summer forage cultivation and ... as a decorative plant (we see it more and more frequently in the development of green spaces in town - roundabouts ...).

I'm not saying it's an uninteresting plant. I'm just saying that this makes one more "miracle" plant to add to the long list of miraculous plants, while it is with us (well, in the south less than in Alsace) at the northern limit of its climatic zone so with "full of defects" too ...

I am allergic to the very idea of ​​a "miracle plant" (they are generally only so for their promoters or those who produce the seeds). Or for green lovers of exoticism. It seems to me an ecological aberration. A plant, like any living being, has aptitudes, requirements ... In general, it is in its environment that its potential is the highest ... This does not mean that such and such a plant "born" to such. This place will not meet similar and very favorable conditions elsewhere ... The English have introduced tea in quite a few regions, but not in the tundra, nor in the Sahel, nor in Alsace (even if I have a bonsai tree from tea tree)

We would not be interested in sorghum as part of our project if it had no interest!

Alfalfa is a local plant (well, today and for several centuries) which has a vegetative potential in my opinion more interesting (except that it is too rich in nitrogen for anaerobic digestion - a digester is allergic to a rate nitrogen too high; that's why we're looking for something else). And it enriches the natural cycle by capturing nitrogen from the air. While showing remarkable resistance to drought (with roots of more than 2 m), therefore a remarkable effect also on the soil structure.
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 30/10/11, 22:41

the quantity of cellulose in sorghum, is it not an obstacle for anaerobic digestion?

I am thinking of the methanization of miscanthus in particular.

moreover with the arrival of varieties rich in lignin, microorganisms find it increasingly difficult to destroy wheat or maize,
therefore it would be necessary to find a plant not too rich in nitrogen and not very lignifying with a good yield in MS.Ha.
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.

Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
clasou
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 553
Registration: 05/05/08, 11:33




by clasou » 31/10/11, 05:23

Hello,
Well I still don't know which species or if you are researching, in the GMO.
For my part, I am not looking for a miracle plant, as I said I have sorghum because I was told that proportionally it took a unit in the ground is produced 7. After the inconvenience for the moment it is to recover the seeds, because we do not have the same time as in Mali, So the largest is easily detached from its support but the end resists.But as it is for the purposes of personal knowledge.
I also have old wheats which have much easier grains to recover, on the other hand they are for the year or I made some relatively high and tend to pour.
After I forgot the canes, once dry are perhaps strong enough to make stakes, use it for or fuel or light the fireplace.
a + claude
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 31/10/11, 09:46

antoinet111 wrote:the quantity of cellulose in sorghum, is it not an obstacle for anaerobic digestion?

I am thinking of the methanization of miscanthus in particular.

moreover with the arrival of varieties rich in lignin, microorganisms find it increasingly difficult to destroy wheat or maize,
therefore it would be necessary to find a plant not too rich in nitrogen and not very lignifying with a good yield in MS.Ha.


1) the cellulose is digested in a methanizer. It's roughly a "concrete belly" (by the way, that's why you have to heat it!).

2) the lignin is not, and is found in the digestate, which bine as liquid, will contribute almost as much to the constitution of humus in the soil!

3) sogho is one, like corn.

In our case, we refuse to grow energy crops instead of food crops (cereals, fodder for livestock). This is one of the spectacular biases of German policy, with an explosion of corn crops as biomass to be methanized (their famous NaWaRo = Nachwachsende Rohstoffe; literally: "raw material that grows back").

We will compost either waste or catch crops (add in the "hollows" of the normal crop cycle = rotation).
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 31/10/11, 09:55

clasou wrote:Hello,
Well I still don't know which species or if you are researching, in the GMO.
For my part, I am not looking for a miracle plant, as I said I have sorghum because I was told that proportionally it took one unit in the ground is produced 7.
a + claude


1) GMO no. 1st certified organic hop plant: yes. 1st certified organic sauerkraut cabbage, yes ... If that can be reassuring (alas, because in itself, it is not being stupid to do research on GMOs; what I wrote would have exactly the same value, because it is the basis of the base of vague notions of agronomy - but "emotionally", obviously, I would be toast)

It's not me directly. I am part of a management team that has developed these projects (and many others) and as such, I am aware.

2) Well, this idea of ​​taking a unit in the ground and producing 7 is still incomprehensible to me. Since I do not know "unit" of what!

And probably false, finally a confusion with something that I do not see, unless actually it is biomass and that we consider on the one hand the humus which has been deteriorated in a year, and the earth the total biomass that returns to the soil. Which is compare rags and towels ...

This is why I allowed myself these long developments to explain the different cycles.

Apparently in vain.

But it's not big deal.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 242 guests