Make a vertical wind turbine to generator

[MatEA57]

Hello everyone !

I would like to make an alternator for a vertical wind turbine making 1,5tours / sec maximum.

The wire I chose and the 2mm section AWG12 enamelled which can support 20Ah theoretically.

My goal is to create a three-phase alternator of 48v (+ 2v) 60A at output, so ~ 3000Wh.

According to the formula: N = F / PF = 50Hz P = pair of poles N = Nb of turns
so I make 50 / 1,5 = 33,33 pairs

I would like to be inspired by the current manufacture of wind turbine with 9 coils of 55 to 70 turns and 12 magnets in front and behind of the epoxy disc of the coils and in opposition ++ -.
I saw that the result was 13v after rectifier on the three-phase winding, for a wind of 8,5km / h.

My problem is at the level of calculations so my questions are:
-What simple calculations is to do to know how much coil and turn to have 48v at a rotation speed of 1,5r / sec
-Why most choose 9 coils and 12 magnets and not 9 magnets?
-Will AWG12 wire 2mm in diameter produce about 20Ah in practice?
-Does 20A three-phase make 60A at the output of the rectifier?

thank you in advance for your help

[dedeleco]

Basic laws dating from Faraday in 1831, to calculate:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_ ... C3%A9tique
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_de_Lenz-Faraday
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27 ... _induction
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9sis ... t%C3%A9%29
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champ_magn%C3%A9tique


It is necessary to know the real magnetic field of your magnets passing in front of the coils to know the voltage induced by turn proportional to their surface multiplied by the speed of the change of the field and calculate the number of turns to have the desired tension for the size of the coils of the same order of magnitude as the magnets which pass in front at 50Hz.
If the magnets are too small, too weak field, and for a wire too large, there will not be room to put the coils of sufficient surface in front of the magnets and the power will be lower.
The size of the magnets is thus fixed by the desired power.
The diameter of the wires is fixed by the method of cooling the coils and the losses accepted in the alternator (or its efficiency).

So it pays to understand what's going on before applying formulas.

[MatEA57]

Thank you for your help !

I will do some reading from your links.

I'm ready to make my house more and more ecological

[hic]

Hello everyone !

I would like to make an alternator for a vertical wind turbine making 1,5tours / sec maximum.

The wire I chose and the 2mm section AWG12 enamelled which can support 20Ah theoretically.

My goal is to create a three-phase alternator of 48v (+ 2v) 60A at output, so ~ 3000Wh.

According to the formula: N = F / PF = 50Hz P = pair of poles N = Nb of turns
so I make 50 / 1,5 = 33,33 pairs

I would like to be inspired by the current manufacture of wind turbine with 9 coils of 55 to 70 turns and 12 magnets in front and behind of the epoxy disc of the coils and in opposition ++ -.
I saw that the result was 13v after rectifier on the three-phase winding, for a wind of 8,5km / h.

My problem is at the level of calculations so my questions are:
-What simple calculations is to do to know how much coil and turn to have 48v at a rotation speed of 1,5r / sec
-Why most choose 9 coils and 12 magnets and not 9 magnets?
-Will AWG12 wire 2mm in diameter produce about 20Ah in practice?
-Does 20A three-phase make 60A at the output of the rectifier?

thank you in advance for your help

Hi MatEA57

It seems that ??
vertical axis wind turbines rotate between 20 to 50 rpm

at 0,3 rpm what will be the relative speed between magnet and coil?

[MatEA57]

Ah! but since I'm at the top of the hill I always have a little wind

I did a tour on Wikipedia, not easy for everyone

On a forum they give me a formula but I can't do it!

here is the extract: "The voltage which appears at the terminals of the coil is E = d (BxS) / dt
S is the area of ​​the coil x by the number of turns
B magnetic induction "


I give you some measures to demonstrate to me:

Dimension of the round magnet: 4cm in diameter * 1cm
Magnetic force: 13000 Gauss
Coil dimension: 5cm of outside diameter; 2cm int diameter; 1,5cm high for 2mm section wire.
Distance between coil and magnet: 1cm
Rotation speed: 1,5 rpm
Desired output voltage: 50v

I originally thought of 18 coils and 24 magnets.

Thank you in advance

[dedeleco]

I did a tour on Wikipedia, not easy for everyone

What level of knowledge do you have?
Submit the links of what you have read and understand to help you by answering precisely what you have read? In particular that of starting turbine corresponding to your choice of magnets and coils.
is this one? :
http://www.windstuffnow.com/turbine%20kit.pdf
The magnets and coils are not round.
There is also :
https://www.econologie.com/forums/photos-pet ... t9278.html

It is also necessary that you take the time to learn the minimum of necessary knowledge, by assimilating courses, concrete first then abstract, otherwise you will remain lost.
Finally, it is in your interest to make a small, not very powerful and inexpensive version with small magnets, of your alternator and wind turbine to better understand the difficulties without losing money in expensive errors.

vertical wind turbine making 1,5tours / sec maximum.
wind turbine with 9 coils of 55 to 70 turns and 12 magnets in front of and behind the epoxy disc of the coils and in opposition ++ -.
I saw that the result was 13v after rectifier on the three-phase winding, for a wind of 8,5km / h.

Dimension of the round magnet: 4cm in diameter * 1cm
Magnetic force: 13000 Gauss
Coil dimension: 5cm of outside diameter; 2cm int diameter; 1,5cm high for 2mm section wire.
Distance between coil and magnet: 1cm
Rotation speed: 1,5 rpm
Desired output voltage: 50v

I originally thought of 18 coils and 24 magnets.

Your number of turns which fixes the tension is for these dimensions of 1,5cm by (5-3) / 2 = 1,5cm and wire of 0,2cm in diameter of (1,5 / 0,2) ^ 2 = 56 max so well wound with great care.

Your formula on forum (from Faraday in 1831) is the same as that on Wikipedia from Faraday and which I put into words:

the voltage induced by turn proportional to their surface multiplied by the speed of the change of the field

A minimum knowledge of the units is required:
The field is in 1 Tesla = 10000Gauss
the surface is in m2.
The magnet must be as close as possible to the coil, since the field decreases quickly outside the magnet, like the cube of the distance as soon as one is a little far from its radius.
The outer coils of the coil are a little far from the magnet 1 + 1,5 = 3,5cm compared to the radius of the magnet 2cm and therefore the field seen by these coils is reduced compared to the field 1,3 Tesla on the surface of the magnet (to be checked).
Since there are several fields in the magnets, put the link giving the full characteristics of your magnets, otherwise risk of error on the value.
The surface S is the surface given by summing the surface of each turn of the coil passing from 2cm inside diameter to 5cm outside diameter.
The corresponding integral gives an effective coil diameter of 3,6 cm between 5 and 2 cm.

The speed of change is that of change of the field seen by the coil when the magnets move in front.
As your magnets are mounted in opposite directions one after the other probably the tension period is that of the passage time of 2 magnets.
Your speed of 1,5t / s requires for the frequency of 50Hz 33 pairs of magnets as you have calculated, ie 66 magnets. Given the three-phase the number of coils must be a multiple of 3 and with 4 magnets for 3 coils of the three-phase, the number of magnets must be multiple of 4, which is not the case with 66, for the arrangement of these magnets are the same for each trio of coils, so as to have induced voltages in all the coils of the trio of three phase in identical phase.
So the closest to 66/4 is equal to 16 or 17 and the number of coils is 16x3 = 38 or 17x3 = 51 if you want to keep the number of 4 magnets for 3 coils.
You should have two bands of magnets close above and below the coils as in this alternator:
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/dual_rotor_turbine.htm
The field on the coils is greatly increased if they are very close.
If we assimilate to a sinusoid this variable field the frequency will be the speed multiplied by the number of pairs of magnets.
Otherwise at 50 Hertz the voltage induced by the effective coil turn will be by taking a magnet field reduced by 1,3 to 1 tesla since the magnets are not against the coils, we obtain:
2xpix50 = pulsation of the 5O Hertz to be multiplied by the field and to be multiplied by the surface in m2 of the whorl with a diameter of 3,6cm, i.e. pix0,018 ^ 2 gives:
2x3,14x50x1x3,14x0,018 ^ 2 = 0,32Volt per turn at 50Hertz!
and for 56 turns 0,32Vx56 = 18Volts peak (to be divided by rac of 2 for effective)
To be multiplied by the number of coils in series for each phase.

But the frequency of movement of the magnets must be 50 Hertz (100 times per second a passage of magnet in front of a coil) to have this voltage.
The number of coils per magnet can be reduced provided that the number of magnets is a multiple of the number of packets by three or trio of coils.
So you can have 9 coils (giving 18Vx3) and for 22 = 66/3 magnets per trio of coils.

Finally it remains to calculate the resistance of your coils to know the resistive losses, wikipedia.
Finally at lower speed it is necessary to increase the number of turns of wire of smaller section to keep the tension (low wind power available), with additional coils and a switch.

[bidouille23]

Hello ,


12 magnets, 1.5 t / s or 90 RPm and 60 A

so if you get there i want to see that .

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/home.asp

see here for example you will have beautiful construction.

on the other hand to start with a gene of 3Kw it can be to go there a little strong, but it is possible.

A thing or two, favor the large rotor diameter with a large number of magnets, 18 to 24 per side.


In short, the greater the speed of change North South is important as well as the time of action of the magnets on the reels (I summarize).

so if you want a high tangential speed well you need a large diameter and a large number of magnets;).

short er look

Hughpigot

The principle of Mr FORBES (inventor of the discoid generator)

thebackshed

otherpower

and there are also some other sites in French.

Beware of magnets that can crush your finger as if laughing, knowing that the closer the magnets are the more it attracts;) dojnc wedges a piece of skin or finger and the more you pull the more you bring the magnets etc and more t 'ache and more his crashes etc have found sphoto of this kind of accident on the net.

That said it's super nice to do all this it's a virus

see you

[dedeleco]

12 magnets, 1.5 t / s or 90 RPm and 60 A

I got tired of giving precise basic calculations, instead of quick peremptory statements without clear and understandable justifications, please read them, because I explained why, with the 12 magnets it is impossible, it takes 66 mini (at 6cm between them) on a diameter of 66x6cm / ft = 1,26m in diameter to be specified with more care.
A commercial wind turbine achieves this recently put on econology at 6000 € !!

Otherwise a speed multiplier with chain, toothed belt, or gear is probably much cheaper than an armada of these magnets on large diameter, more powerful version of LED lamps with manual recharge. In addition we can put a variable speed change according to the wind.

Otherwise the advice to be wary of these very powerful magnets which stick with forces of almost 100 kilos and therefore unstuck is important, but indicated on the sale sites.
The heads in the air that have pinched their fingers, as if under a car wheel, towards the hospital, learn to think before acting.
These strong rare earth magnets are recent and did not exist 20 years ago.
Rare earths may run out well before oil, to the pleasure of the Chinese !!
It remains to find the superconductors at ordinary temperature which would allow much more extraordinary, without losses with much higher fields. Those with liquid nitrogen are already extraordinary and still misunderstood in 25 years after their discovery.

Finally there is also the virus of correct correct calculations and to seek the best solution.

[bidouille23]

re,

Dedelco t'ennerveeee passs, I am the peremptory and you the explanatory .

I say it's even more than conclusive in fact , I had great fun for 2 years with the discoide generators, and I'm just giving my conclusions.

So as much for me it is true that it was in no way explanatory or clear (as usual with me ) but you are there with alin too and mischievous, I am one of the little beetles and you are old vieuuuuuxxxxxxx;) .

Well if not on the sites that I gave there are practical and real achievements, and that gives an idea of ​​the possibilities according to the means, it is another less scientific approach certainly but very speaking. And one among other very explanatory with calculation of a wind turbine of 6Kw with a rotor diameter of 50 cm I believe (anyway have is limited in scrap diameter if we do not want bending of the latter etc etc).

http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/alt_from_scratch.htm

here it's very nice too;) and explanatory.

otherwise primrose made a nice camping car wind turbine which produces a lot a priori but not in axial radial (best tangential speed of the magnet but it is peremptory;) so I say not).

https://www.econologie.com/forums/photos-pet ... t9278.html

Last statement a wind turbine is not a stack of generator and a blade game, but a set that must be harmonized and tuned if we can say.
So after the electric there is still a lot to do.

But above all you have to know the wind potential available, and personally seen the poor yields achieved so far by vertical wind turbines I think it is a waste of time and money except to make something with enemy blades).
In short, it's not ecology, it's a waste.
Or then you have to do better than Mr Darius for speed, and without taking everything in the face, or something crazy in size for the couple of the type soapius, a mix of the two is possible, but so far no one has did better than a horizontal wind turbine.

Also go to the forum petiteolien de yahoo there are specialists such as the creator of eoltec, who among us is one of the best manufacturers in the world (production record for a wind turbine of 6Kw in Orkney (Scotland) to watch it is impressive.
He will give you advice, Hadrien Dorffman creator (among others) of the low cost wind turbine but really effective on microenergy.

In short, do not throw yourself directly into spending but educate yourself well on all the ins and outs.

But above all THE MEASUREMENT OF THE WIND AVAILABLE over a period of at least six months is essential, everything follows from it, and at 2 m difference the wind is completely different (relief in general and obstacle less than 50 m).


That said it is a superb adventure.

see you

[dedeleco]

Completely agree, on inquire as much as possible !!
In addition, we forget the level of turbulence of the wind often high near the ground or behind disturbances even at 100m, what any windsurfing windsurfer who goes up the mistral towards the edge can discover by seeing the lift of his sail tumble, to return to the edge all the more difficult as it approaches.
Beginners find themselves in distress near the edge, exhausted.

This turbulence enormously destroys the performance of high performance wind turbines with very elongated thin blades and they pay great attention to their mutual arrangement without the slightest disturbance.
In turbulence the calculation of the blades is almost illusory.

Not far from the ground, with turbulence, wind turbines with simplistic sails, like on a boat, must not be so bad in comparison, better than Savonius.